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  #1  
Old 02-22-2020, 03:39 PM
Saville's Avatar
Saville Saville is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: KBVY Massachusetts
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Default Andair Fuel Valve Install - need ideas

I have a LEFT - BOTH - RIGHT - OFF Andair Fuel Valve installed in my -8.

Given that I have a new left tank being built I decided to replace that with an Andair LEFT - RIGHT - OFF.

The present installation is beyond hideous. Extremely difficult to remove the panel to look down there and/or tighten the B-nuts.
Here it is:



I notice in the plans that if you have the Van's valve you install it using bracket F-883A:



Here is Detail A on the plans:




But Andair Valves won't fit inside the bracket. Something else has to be done.

I have 2 ideas:

1) Make a new bracket, using the same thickness material, that is wide enough so that the Andair valve can fit. Rivet that to the flanges. It would be hard to get in there and rivet new support cross member to the flange that's riveted to the skin.

2) Make a new cover plate out of 0.064 sheet aluminum and mount the Andair directly to that using nutplates.



Any ideas wold be welcome. Especially if you've retro-fitted an Andair valve to an already built airplane.

Yes I know the wires have to be gotten out of the way.

Thanks !
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2020, 04:28 PM
ksdflying ksdflying is offline
 
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Location: Antioch, Tennessee
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Default

See if this helps you.

I made a new bracket, by using the one that came from Vans, used as a template.
But made it much more wide. I just bent some 0.030 I had laying around in trim scrap.
I cut and bent one side for a Z bend such that it raised that side of the bracket to be flush with the console cover sheet.
Then for the other side had to make an extension and formed it in a Z bend to again raise that side of the bracket up to be flush for the console sheet.
Photos will explain. If you want to see original images so you can zoom up, just PM me.

Also, a major part of this, I said to H E L L with bending tubing for all this. That is ridiculous. Call Tom at TS flightlines and have him make you some high quality hoses. Bending tubing into this spaghetti nightmare is over rated.

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal
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Last edited by ksdflying : 02-22-2020 at 04:30 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2020, 04:39 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Location: LSGG
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Default fuel valve installation

No matter what you do, it will not be easy to get access to the valve. I was literally down there today, trying to track down a small whiff of fuel smell. I think I found it.

Here are some old pictures. I've changed it a bit, but not much.

http://www.rv8.ch/andair-fuel-valve-installation/

Not much magic here, just find a way to hold the valve stable, and then get the cover on it, mainly for cosmetics. I kind of wish that the holes in the fuel valve were threaded - that's the hardest part, getting a socket underneath there to hold the nut while turning the screw at the top. I think I need to get into yoga.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2020, 05:06 PM
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N546RV N546RV is offline
 
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Location: Houston, TX
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Here's how I mounted mine. Basically, I ran two pieces of angle between the aux longeron and mid-cabin brace; those two pieces are in turn tied together with a piece of sheet aluminum that the valve itself mounts to.

I can't say anything about what it's like in service since I'm not flying yet, but all the nipples on my Andair valve point down, so I don't expect that it'd be as terrible to deal with as yours is. We'll find out maybe later this year if I'm wrong about that...

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  #5  
Old 02-22-2020, 11:23 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default access when fully assembled

Philip, I'm sure you know this, but I would be very careful about doing the install with the side skin off to make sure that you can maintain it when you are flying. I didn't have any choice since I had a QB. Working on it from a sitting position is not easy (at least for me). If I have to do anything serious there, I'll remove the seats, put down some old foam, and lay down.
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:54 AM
74-07 74-07 is online now
 
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Location: Greenville, SC
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksdflying View Post
See if this helps you.

I made a new bracket, by using the one that came from Vans, used as a template.
But made it much more wide. I just bent some 0.030 I had laying around in trim scrap.
I cut and bent one side for a Z bend such that it raised that side of the bracket to be flush with the console cover sheet.
Then for the other side had to make an extension and formed it in a Z bend to again raise that side of the bracket up to be flush for the console sheet.
Photos will explain. If you want to see original images so you can zoom up, just PM me.

Also, a major part of this, I said to H E L L with bending tubing for all this. That is ridiculous. Call Tom at TS flightlines and have him make you some high quality hoses. Bending tubing into this spaghetti nightmare is over rated.

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal

https://www.dropbox.com/preview/IMG_...?role=personal
Yes! Just went thru this. Tom as TS Flightlines will make this job almost pleasant.......well, not terrible.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:51 AM
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Saville Saville is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: KBVY Massachusetts
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N546RV View Post
Here's how I mounted mine. Basically, I ran two pieces of angle between the aux longeron and mid-cabin brace; those two pieces are in turn tied together with a piece of sheet aluminum that the valve itself mounts to.

I can't say anything about what it's like in service since I'm not flying yet, but all the nipples on my Andair valve point down, so I don't expect that it'd be as terrible to deal with as yours is. We'll find out maybe later this year if I'm wrong about that...

I'm considering this form of installation but I have two questions:

1) What did you use for the angle aluminum supports?


2) The excerpt from the drawing which I included above shows 3 rivets
at each end of the F883A Fuel Valve Bracket.

Your installation shows one at each end of the angle for a total of 2.
So that means that the weight of the installation is born by a total of 4 rivets
and not 6.

Is this sufficient (I wonder) to keep the valve from moving under G?

I had the same idea as yours but I was wondering about the strength
of the install.

Thanks!
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2020, 10:43 AM
EXTAAFLY EXTAAFLY is offline
 
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Default Excellent Timing!

Just about to begin this process myself.

Haven't opened it up yet. But now I have some great ideas for what ever I find down there.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:31 AM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
 
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Location: Buena Park, California
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The clocking of the Left fuel port of the Andair fuel valve left it situated too close to the fuselage skin for me to route the fuel line without resorting to the 90 deg elbow, which something to be avoided according to Dave Prizio advice on the fuel-system

What I did was to move the fuel-valve inboard about 1.5 inches in order to have more clearance so I can run the left tank fuel line with more gradual bends. I've been working on this fuel valve since Monday night and I am struggling a bit due to the tight clearance of the left fuel port. I don't have a picture of the final assembly yet.

To answer the question about the g loading of the mount. The original Vans fuel bracket is only 0.040in thick so using the two thicker angles should be beefier. Also, there is another 0.032" cover plate that is mounted on top of the fuel valve. Three screws will go through the cover plate down to the nut plates on the valve to keep everything tight. So the support comprises of the cover plate, fuel bracket angles, side longeron, mid-cabin support, and the fuel valve structure working in unison and nothing will move under load.
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:42 AM
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Saville Saville is offline
 
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Location: KBVY Massachusetts
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatRV View Post
The clocking of the Left fuel port of the Andair fuel valve left it situated too close to the fuselage skin for me to route the fuel line without resorting to the 90 deg elbow, which something to be avoided according to Dave Prizio advice on the fuel-system

What I did was to move the fuel-valve inboard about 1.5 inches in order to have more clearance so I can run the left tank fuel line with more gradual bends. I've been working on this fuel valve since Monday night and I am struggling a bit due to the tight clearance of the left fuel port. I don't have a picture of the final assembly yet.

To answer the question about the g loading of the mount. The original Vans fuel bracket is only 0.040in thick so using the two thicker angles should be beefier. Also, there is another 0.032" cover plate that is mounted on top of the fuel valve. Three screws will go through the cover plate down to the nut plates on the valve to keep everything tight. So the support comprises of the cover plate, fuel bracket angles, side longeron, mid-cabin support, and the fuel valve structure working in unison and nothing will move under load.

My concern with regard to G loading is not the beefiness of the components.
And in both cases (Van's and your description), the mounting screws for the valve go through all the components and the cover plate is fastened to the same structure..

It's that the angles and sub-plate attached to the airplane with 4 rivets instead of 6 for the bracket. Everything else is exactly the same.
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Last edited by Saville : 02-28-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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