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Flutter

FlyFastJP

Well Known Member
I have yet to fly my new-to-me RV-4. I just bought it over the weekend. I've heard for years about how fast they are, and to take flutter into serious consideration. Mine has an O-360 with a a fixed pitch prop. Former owner said the cruise speed is 200+ true at altitude. I'm sure down low it'll run fast as well. I even plan on some SARL racing with it.

How worried should I be with flutter?
 
I have yet to fly my new-to-me RV-4. I just bought it over the weekend. I've heard for years about how fast they are, and to take flutter into serious consideration. Mine has an O-360 with a a fixed pitch prop. Former owner said the cruise speed is 200+ true at altitude. I'm sure down low it'll run fast as well. I even plan on some SARL racing with it.

How worried should I be with flutter?

Use the search function. There are HUGE quantities of excellent information in the archives here, specific to your question.

And yes, an RV-4 will flutter. One of our very highly qualified pilots got into it merely by not paying attention to speed in an ordinary cruise descent. He wrote it up in the RVator. You should get a copy of that issue.
 
Use the search function. There are HUGE quantities of excellent information in the archives here, specific to your question.

And yes, an RV-4 will flutter. .

True, but any airplane can be made to flutter. At the risk of putting words in Dan's mouth, I think he means that the airplane is clean enough that it is easier to bust Vne than on some other airplanes. People were terrified of V tailed bonanzas because "they fluttered" (forked tailed Dr killers etc). It was simply a case of an airplane that was very clean and if you got disoriented in IMC and got into a dive you could bust Vne very quickly. It was not a structural issue per se. If you didnt' stay on top of the airspeed bits would start coming off. So be very aware of controlling airspeed, especially if you are going to do aerobatics. Of course that's a requirement in any airplane.
 
Your -4 will go as fast as you want it to if you point it at the ground. :) But seriously, I think you'll find your average cruise to be more in the 160 mph range depending on how you run it. The -4 is a great flying machine and once you get acclimated to its performance, both fast and slow, I have no doubt you'll enjoy it.
 
Welcome to the community!

Tomorrow I'm helping a buddy check out in his new to him -4--he just bought it and hasn't flown it yet. He is a test pilot school grad that currently works in the flight test department for one of the major airframe manufacturers. We lost a squadron mate about 15 years ago when his jet came apart during a simple captive weapons carry test due to flutter.

I'm not aware of any Van's mishaps due to flutter, although there have been several structural failures over the years, most of which were due to pilot handling errors. Proper flutter testing is actually a bit of a black art and has already been nicely described in this thread. A couple of things happen when you start to go fast: first, you have lots of aerodynamic G available (more than enough to pull the tail off the airplane if you pull the stick hard enough and fast enough); and second, if you exceed design limits you have a diminishing flutter margin. If you exceed design limits enough, you may have no flutter margin, but just exactly were that point is is unique for your particular airplane. Interestingly, the point at which flutter will occur for a particular airframe will actually change over time with damage or wear. Vno (maximum structural cruising speed) for the RV-4 is 180 MPH indicated airspeed and should only be exceeded in smooth air. Vne (never exceed speed) is 210 MPH and is, effectively, a true airspeed. So if you go high enough, 210 MPH true can occur at indicated airspeeds less than Vno. It's also important to understand the effect of gust loading on the airplane at speeds in excess of Vno. It is certainly possible to generate 200 MPH TAS at altitude in the -4 in level flight, and quite easy to exceed that in a descent.

I put RV-specific aerodynamic discussion, including flutter, in the training syllabus on the safety page that you might find helpful. You can download a copy if you'd like via the hyperlink in the most recent post in the thread in the sticky section. The table of contents is hyperlinked to help you navigate the information. If you have any questions, you can post, drop me a PM or email and I'll be happy to answer them. And I'll parrot what Dan said--there is quite a bit of discussion on this site and in the RVator that you can dig through using the search function that will be very helpful as you transition to your new plane.

I use my O-320 powered airplane to commute to work and cruise between 7000-10000 feet at 180 MPH TAS which reliably provides 150 knots ground speed at 60-65% power. I posted a copy of the handbook for my airplane on the POH tab and there are several others there for RV-4's that you may find helpful as well.

You're going to enjoy your new airplane but might find that it takes a while for the grin to wear off after that first flight!

Cheers,

Vac
 
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Yes, I know him well...

I have yet to fly my new-to-me RV-4. I just bought it over the weekend. I've heard for years about how fast they are, and to take flutter into serious consideration. Mine has an O-360 with a a fixed pitch prop. Former owner said the cruise speed is 200+ true at altitude. I'm sure down low it'll run fast as well. I even plan on some SARL racing with it.

How worried should I be with flutter?

Johnnie,
Yes, the flutter incident was me!
Afterward I went through my RV4 with a fine tooth comb and found only a slightly loose trim tab. The shaking in the stick may or may have not been actual flutter but turbulence. My Rocket with the exact same tail on it easily would indicate 250 Knots in a descent with not even a burble...but I digress.
Here is the excellent article written by my good friend Ken Krueger with my addition at the end. It's taken from the now defunct RV8R, a great publication from back in the day....
V/R
Smokey

https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf
 
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Smokey I know of several accidents caused by a tab fluttering. The dehavillend caribou prototype was lost that way. A spring tab fluttered. And of course Transport Canada (our FAA) was on board evaluating the airplane at the time! They jumped out and were fine but the airplane dug a deep hole. So your loose tab could have been the culprit. Tabs are powerful. We all saw the terrible accident at Reno when a trim tab failed in 2011.
 
It goes way beyond that. Cessna Conquest prototype lost due to elevator tab flutter. Rocket at Reno a few years ago lost most of one elevator, probably caused by tab flutter. I know of a Pitts derivative where the wire trim tab actuator broke. Aircraft landed safely, probably due in part to the wire braced tail, additional stabilizer leading edge brace tube and the inherent strength of the Pitts airplane. Also an EAA biplane, same scenario as Pitts. Flutter occurred just over 100 ias.
 
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