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Rudder Pedal Mounting Position

Bill.Peyton

Bill.Peyton

Well Known Member
I am trying to come up with a way to move the lower part of the rudder pedals more rearward. Vans has you drill two sets of mounting holes for the F1039B bearing block mounting plate. This allows you to install the UPPER part of the rudder assy in a more rearward position. this unfortunately does not help the LOWER part of the rudder pedal. My wife is also a pilot and not a tall person, so the rear position is what I chose. The only problem is the rudder cables are cut for the foward position and are now too long for the rearward position. I am left with either ordering a 1" shorter set of cables ($$) or trying to shorten the F-10104 rudder cable links called out on page 38-10. Doing the latter will only buy me about 1/2".
I have already added the pedal grips from JD air parts on the cross piece below the brakes. While this helps the rudder issue, it does not move the brake any closer. I really don't want to add any blocks to the pedals. Way to inconvenient.
Does anyone have any suggestions before I spend the $$ on new cables?
 
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I hadn't heard of two lengths of rudder cables, just the 1" F-10104 or 2 1/4" F-10104 , for each respective position. I think you would have to order a shorter custom lenght from someone else, but would be your cheapest route. Are you sure the aft location is too much for your wife. I'm short and I have no problem with the aft position. Have her sit in and try before you continue.
Ron
 
I don't think you need a different cable.
I installed mine just the way you intend to and used the cables provided in the kit.
It should be a straight forward installation in either position.
 
I had her sit in the plane last night with the seats etc in place, and while she can get to the rudders, not the brakes all the way. Before I buy some custom cables I may try shortening the 10104 cable links by .5" and see if that fixes the problem. I sure hate to buy a new cable, but that may be the only way for me to go. I guess I could tell her she can't fly the plane, but you guys would probably not hear from me again:)
 
You have too much cable, why would you purchase more?

Before you purchase custom cables, purchase new ends (only one end on each cable) cut off the existing end and have a local hardware cable shop swedge on the new ends. That will shorten the cable the amount of the swedge, 2"min. Check for clearance when the cable is in full aft position. If more clearance is needed, trim down (1/2"max) the new end before it is swedged to the cable.

PS> This can be swedged at home with a hammer, V block and punch. I swedged the end of a 1/16" cable and tested it to 500 psi with no failure. I swedged it with wire crimps. 1/8" cable fail is at 2000 psi and working at 400 psi. Think about it's task in your plane.
 
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Bill.Peyton said:
Todd, I have those extensions. I am going to shorten the links today and see how that works....
Click to expand...

Bill,

Have you seen what Tim did for Andrea?

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/upgrades/20090503/index.html

RV20090503181423_t.jpg


Another similiar variation:

Pedal_Extensions_Alan.jpg


bob
 
I did Bob, but I did not like the looks nor the hassle of putting it on and off during cross countries when we share legs.

In regards to re-using the old cable, I did not think of that simply because I believe you are correct in that I would lose 2" in length, which would be too much. I need to mod the links and see if .5" will do for her before I go any further.
 
Methinks you are opening up a can of worms here, with the idea of going to a shorter cable.

If at all possible, I would be looking at relocating the seating position to make the necessary corrections.

Like Stein says, my $0.02;)

I have the blocks to the aft set of holes, and have made my own links as short as I could make them------just under 3/4" as I recall.

Have you contacted Vans to see what they recommend?
 
Mike,
Haven't spoken with Vans yet. Will do that if my first idea doesn't work. I am in the process of making a set of shorter links and see if that cures the issue. I sure wouldn't look forward to threading new cables!
 
If you cut the original cables and they are too short why could you not make longer F-10104, I would also recommend a professonal swage to replace the factory end.
Ron
 
Ron,
I thought of that. In fact it could be made adjustable by putting multiple holes in the link. I am going to do a little testing today on just shortening the link and report back.
 
This may be obvious but I didn't see it specifically mentioned. When she tried out the pedals, was the seat adjusted forward? I don't know how much fore/aft adjustment there is in the seat and I'm curious for my 5'3" CFO, or she might halt financing for the project.
 
Flion,

My 5'4" wife has no trouble reaching the pedals with them mounted in the aft position and the seat full forward.

Jim Berry
RV-10 (now at Grady's for paint)
 
I'd guess that 5'3" is right on the edge. I'm 5'6" and fly with the seat one notch back from full forward. Of course what counts is leg length not total height, I think women tend to have longer legs relative to total height than men, on average. The real test is if you can apply the brakes if you need to hold a lot of rudder (say, due to a strong cross wind). Or for taxiing.
 
Well tonight we sat in the seat with the carpet on the floor. Jane is 5"3" and it appears that if I just shorten the links to the minimum amount and she adjusts the seat to full forward, it should fix the issue. I am 5'10" and I am using the middle position of the seat. Barely escaped the project shutdown on this one!
 
I fitted the cables a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately, I am not at home to quote the page numbers. However, it clearly shows the length of the link between the cable and the pedal depending on whether you use the fore or aft position. I fitted the rudder pedals some time ago and what wasn't clear in the plans was the option of 2 positions. I put them at the front since that is what was depicted. At 5'9", it appears the rear position might have been preferable although the comments made so far suggest I will be OK - be a bit of a pain to have to move them.......

I haven't fitted the rudder yet so can't comment on the effectiveness of this adjustment. I assume that VANS have done the measurements! What I don't understand is why there is no adjustment to change the tension. I assume that there is enough "give" in the total length to stretch the cables to fit.
 
Paul,
You can't imagine how many times I read over the length change for aft and fore position and did not pick up on it Duh! I just checked and I did make them 1", the aft position. They still need to be shorter!
 
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Paul, there is no adjustment for tension because there is no tension on the cables until the pilot puts his feet on the pedals (unless return springs are installed). I fitted return springs to my -6A and like them but even they don't add a lot of tension. They won't keep the rudder from finding its own trail position but they keep the cables from going slack if I want to put my feed on the floor for a minute. I'm undecided if I will do something similar on the -10; I'm not sure how it will affect the yaw dampener.
 
flion said:
Paul, there is no adjustment for tension because there is no tension on the cables until the pilot puts his feet on the pedals
Click to expand...

Aaah, of course. I was thinking it would be a closed loop. I guess that means that if I find the pedals a bit too far forward on the front setting, I can just shorten the links a bit - it will just change the angle of the pedals slightly.
 
Turnbuckles

I put turnbuckles in both rudder cables back in the tunnel where the travel of the turnbuckles for full rudder deflection would not reach anything that would interfere with movement. They give me about 1-2" of adjustment each. I borrowed a professional swaging tool from the local aviation manufacturer, took about an hour. Very slick.

These:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/cliplocking.php
 
Bryan, that's a brilliant idea. Where in the tunnel did you put the break? And the turnbuckles don't rub on the tunnel sides? Or did you move the guides?
 
At 5" 10" Height, what Rudder Position Should I use

What is the most comfortable rudder position for someone of my height (5' 10") forward or aft position? I am a long way from having seats, rails, cushions so it is hard to tell, looking for the experience of others.

2nd related topic, I notice the tension\drag on the rudder pedal swing tightened up a bit with the center bearing block torqued down. I read one post in the archive where someone installed a shim (washer) between the top\bottom block to account for the material removed when cutting the block in half thereby reducing the drag a bit?? Comments\experience of others appreciated.


Ln7bPasHk1OH88DZYR5DIkclr_8bHRpDUZ9nsKds-_Bmyrj8OAJRuTVTrNoIwRAoB_w0V_cpCK0UWYYBi8015PBHFRCg6tPLjvbCED1_sjCUszf2abr_TH98GzKQZUq7SM36MEsmnSTgX530VxqaWfJU1rvtc2Cm9iuFsdgvVVRCZs9GPoScGrckJs6D5R4dpsyE0mZEidZ-qlvy3KhltxomsdmWukRhk4LDdl-xIpjKIWf-EorJvIbfOP4OrWjRTtwpyKrnxvtlVUI9Z7zi75QM9D0DIsYDYGQrpefzTnVZaHToSAWMdjR92e9oY4QUShKP_jIw0i-CA3nkqKLKm_G56uedjeX-L_Y9t8SFGEkWkzrcOZrQExBLQQRduORiurrC35ayBp5bk-OxFvCeM2F4W-6Q40RzhPG1EVAUVL5xeLV2f0LhbpCC1dz4vKcK1JKf760ktbGbNCWZuuxxvy9Og9MXjBnT4yDL2w8ExSXdhTCsum72yKtnghMVT4mZCLu4DBB7AcLXK5Zy0lQqN_GQnDif9t5soq-R2LTXv9AoONAR9WcEbJCd29VdrzWtM_VByFO8IdIhkBP87sMQ6Z7VsbzHjrjklY4K1No=w640-h480-no

Steve
 
steve murray said:
What is the most comfortable rudder position for someone of my height (5' 10") forward or aft position? I am a long way from having seats, rails, cushions so it is hard to tell, looking for the experience of others.

2nd related topic, I notice the tension\drag on the rudder pedal swing tightened up a bit with the center bearing block torqued down. I read one post in the archive where someone installed a shim (washer) between the top\bottom block to account for the material removed when cutting the block in half thereby reducing the drag a bit?? Comments\experience of others appreciated.


Ln7bPasHk1OH88DZYR5DIkclr_8bHRpDUZ9nsKds-_Bmyrj8OAJRuTVTrNoIwRAoB_w0V_cpCK0UWYYBi8015PBHFRCg6tPLjvbCED1_sjCUszf2abr_TH98GzKQZUq7SM36MEsmnSTgX530VxqaWfJU1rvtc2Cm9iuFsdgvVVRCZs9GPoScGrckJs6D5R4dpsyE0mZEidZ-qlvy3KhltxomsdmWukRhk4LDdl-xIpjKIWf-EorJvIbfOP4OrWjRTtwpyKrnxvtlVUI9Z7zi75QM9D0DIsYDYGQrpefzTnVZaHToSAWMdjR92e9oY4QUShKP_jIw0i-CA3nkqKLKm_G56uedjeX-L_Y9t8SFGEkWkzrcOZrQExBLQQRduORiurrC35ayBp5bk-OxFvCeM2F4W-6Q40RzhPG1EVAUVL5xeLV2f0LhbpCC1dz4vKcK1JKf760ktbGbNCWZuuxxvy9Og9MXjBnT4yDL2w8ExSXdhTCsum72yKtnghMVT4mZCLu4DBB7AcLXK5Zy0lQqN_GQnDif9t5soq-R2LTXv9AoONAR9WcEbJCd29VdrzWtM_VByFO8IdIhkBP87sMQ6Z7VsbzHjrjklY4K1No=w640-h480-no

Steve
Click to expand...

Personally I'd go with the forward position (I'm 5'11"). And IIRC, I used a single AN960-10 washer sandwiched between the upper and lower F-6115 bearing blocks. What I don't remember is whether I placed a washer in the middle. I'll look this weekend.
 
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Auburntsts said:
Personally I'd go with the forward position (I'm 5'11"). And IIRC, I used a single AN960-10 washer sandwiched between the upper and lower F-6115 bearing blocks. What I don't remember is whether I placed a washer in the middle. I'll look this weekend.
Click to expand...

I'm about the same height as Todd and used the aft position. I find it very comfortable flying with the seat positioned in the second notch from the front. Remember the seat does have a good range of adjustment.

https://520lw.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/rudder-pedals-and-brakes/
 
So as you can see, either position will most likely work just fine (unless you have a really short or long inseam). Best advice is to see if you can find a nearby flying 10 that you could sit in and see for yourself as this very much a personal preference and what others have done really doesn't matter that much IMO.
 
While I think either position is fine, and certainly the forward position would be ideal for CG purposes, I think it's probably worth putting the seats and stick in before you make the decision on the rudder pedals. The reason is, if you put the pedals in the forward position, shorter people will have to be almost full-forward on the seat slides. Now, when you stick the seat ALL the way forward, you may get to the point where the stick is awkwardly close to your belly. So, for some people, it may actually be better to have the pedals aft, to give them more stick to belly room. It may work either way, but there are enough factors there from height of person, to length of arms, and size of belly, that it's probably worth sticking the seats and stick in and just make sure you like what you have.
 
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