Van's Air Force
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IFR Approach speeds and power settings
- Thread starter kbehrent
- Start date
The real answer is that you want to be able to fly approaches at a variety of speeds. Sooner or later you'll be at a large airport with a jet behind you, and ATC asking for best forward speed. So 130 kias or even more, ASSUMING that you expect to break out reasonably high with reasonable visibility, so you can slow for landing in a safe fashion.
OTOH if the wx is 200 and 1/2, then you don't want to disturb the trim at all that low, so 110 kias is too fast unless the runway is very long. For weather like that I suggest 80 kias and partial flaps.
For "routine" approaches (expect good visiblity and > 500' ceiling) I like to fly at the top of the white arc (for first notch of flaps), so I can extend them immediately on going visual.
OTOH if the wx is 200 and 1/2, then you don't want to disturb the trim at all that low, so 110 kias is too fast unless the runway is very long. For weather like that I suggest 80 kias and partial flaps.
For "routine" approaches (expect good visiblity and > 500' ceiling) I like to fly at the top of the white arc (for first notch of flaps), so I can extend them immediately on going visual.
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
I suggest this "approach"
Accidental pun, but fun.
Use the highest speed from which you can break out at 200' AGL and deploy flaps and land in a reasonable distance. For my 7A, no flaps, it is 100 KIAS. YMMV, especially because the 9/9A is a better glider. Experiment in VFR WX with little or no wind and you will have your answer. Keep in mind that IFR runways will be longer than some VFR ones.
The concept expressed above is a good one. Keep the controls responsive. If you have to handle wind changes or need any other kind of urgent maneuver then you will be glad you did. I include a go-around in this.
Lastly, my view is "get it over with" and dawdling on the glideslope portion of final is not a good thing.
These ideas work for me. Reasonable others may differ.
Accidental pun, but fun.
Use the highest speed from which you can break out at 200' AGL and deploy flaps and land in a reasonable distance. For my 7A, no flaps, it is 100 KIAS. YMMV, especially because the 9/9A is a better glider. Experiment in VFR WX with little or no wind and you will have your answer. Keep in mind that IFR runways will be longer than some VFR ones.
The concept expressed above is a good one. Keep the controls responsive. If you have to handle wind changes or need any other kind of urgent maneuver then you will be glad you did. I include a go-around in this.
Lastly, my view is "get it over with" and dawdling on the glideslope portion of final is not a good thing.
These ideas work for me. Reasonable others may differ.
IMHO the above post is an okay idea as long as the visibility is okay (1 mile or more, day). It is a very bad idea if the visibility is less than a mile and/or dark night. You do not want to be dealing with the pitch changes that go with flap deployment when this low in this kind of poor visibility.
I'm talking about the speed/configuration from the FAF inbound. No need to slow down unnecessarily prior to that.
I'm talking about the speed/configuration from the FAF inbound. No need to slow down unnecessarily prior to that.
terrykohler
Well Known Member
Stabilized Approach
Inside the FAF, your speed shouldn't vary by more than a few knots, or you're really going to be chasing the GS. In the 9, that means somewhere around 80 knots, or you won't be able to go to full flaps, especially at DH. Any faster, you're going to need a lot of runway or you'll be pulling back up into the clouds. I like to be slow enough to allow me to deploy approach flaps (about 90kts) before I intercept the localizer. Once I start the descent, it's hard to slow down enough to deploy flaps if I haven't already done so.
Make stabilized approaches part of your everyday routine. That way, when you're facing weather down to minimums, you won't be sweating. Just so you understand the impact of higher speeds on an ILS, try carrying 110kts to the DH and see if you can get the airplane on the ground without pitching up. That should drive the point home.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Inside the FAF, your speed shouldn't vary by more than a few knots, or you're really going to be chasing the GS. In the 9, that means somewhere around 80 knots, or you won't be able to go to full flaps, especially at DH. Any faster, you're going to need a lot of runway or you'll be pulling back up into the clouds. I like to be slow enough to allow me to deploy approach flaps (about 90kts) before I intercept the localizer. Once I start the descent, it's hard to slow down enough to deploy flaps if I haven't already done so.
Make stabilized approaches part of your everyday routine. That way, when you're facing weather down to minimums, you won't be sweating. Just so you understand the impact of higher speeds on an ILS, try carrying 110kts to the DH and see if you can get the airplane on the ground without pitching up. That should drive the point home.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
Terry, why would you title your post "stabilized approach" and then suggest to throw out full flaps at DA(H)? Nothing could be more de-stabilizing. If the visibility is okay then it is not a big deal, but this is not the way to shoot ils approaches to minimums (1/2 mile vis). Unfortunately it is what we all practice because real visibilities this low are not so common.
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kbehrent
Well Known Member
Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try.
9a with 0-320 & MT prop - For holds / procedure turns I have settled on 2300rpm about 18MAP, 95kts and 10 degrees of flaps, this maintains level flight and gives a solid feel with a near normal attitude. 13MAP gives a 500FPM descent. On a missed approach I have to increase MAP and we are climbing.
I really do think it is all about where you are at with the airplane. I wear mine like an old pair of underwear. Ok, maybe more than you wanted to know 
. I like 100kts and do it often. If I chose to, I could/have slow from that while crossing the fence. To each his own. Tanya likes 85-90 knots. <jab> I just haven't figured out exactly which yet! </jab>
edit1: I definitely don't put out any flaps (in my particular airplane!) until I'm ready to land from the ILS approach. Different deal VFR. I've never shot an approach any lower than 200' and don't intend to, in an RV.
. I like 100kts and do it often. If I chose to, I could/have slow from that while crossing the fence. To each his own. Tanya likes 85-90 knots. <jab> I just haven't figured out exactly which yet! </jab>edit1: I definitely don't put out any flaps (in my particular airplane!) until I'm ready to land from the ILS approach. Different deal VFR. I've never shot an approach any lower than 200' and don't intend to, in an RV.
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hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
something to consider about flaps
I appreciate the concern about deploying flaps at 200' for landing, but my bigger concern is with flaps settings for a go-around. I make my approaches without flaps at 100 kias. I assume it would have to be slower in a 9/9A.
I just don't find that deploying flaps when ready to land is a stability issue but retracting them on a go around can be an issue and it's one more thing to do when you are busy with the transition from approach to go around.
My best climb is no-flaps. If you want to have flaps for the climb, then you will have to fly the approach slower. For example, 95 kias is the Van's specified upper limit for the first notch of flaps on my 7A.
I can break out, kill the throttle, deploy the first notch of flaps and start my landing with no stability issues once I can see the runway.
BTW - a 3 degree slope at 100 KTAS is 528 fpm descent if my trig is right. That seems pretty reasonable. But my no-power sink w/o flaps will be greater than 700, maybe even 900. So it should be no problem to slow down and sink to the runway from 100 KIAS with no flaps at 200' and adding flaps as I slow and sink in visual conditions.
There are better pilots than I am out there. Lots of them! This is just one opinion.
I appreciate the concern about deploying flaps at 200' for landing, but my bigger concern is with flaps settings for a go-around. I make my approaches without flaps at 100 kias. I assume it would have to be slower in a 9/9A.
I just don't find that deploying flaps when ready to land is a stability issue but retracting them on a go around can be an issue and it's one more thing to do when you are busy with the transition from approach to go around.
My best climb is no-flaps. If you want to have flaps for the climb, then you will have to fly the approach slower. For example, 95 kias is the Van's specified upper limit for the first notch of flaps on my 7A.
I can break out, kill the throttle, deploy the first notch of flaps and start my landing with no stability issues once I can see the runway.
BTW - a 3 degree slope at 100 KTAS is 528 fpm descent if my trig is right. That seems pretty reasonable. But my no-power sink w/o flaps will be greater than 700, maybe even 900. So it should be no problem to slow down and sink to the runway from 100 KIAS with no flaps at 200' and adding flaps as I slow and sink in visual conditions.
There are better pilots than I am out there. Lots of them! This is just one opinion.
kbehrent
Well Known Member
90-100kts was what I was expecting. Coming in hot for me is not really an issue for me, I'm able to slow done quickly over the threshold and have practiced dumping flaps on really short finals. My plane is a sweet heart to fly. I love the C/S!!
Several years ago my CFII showed me the sweet spot on for my 75 Sundowner on a ILS approach. It was 105, one notch of flaps and and quick turn on the trim. It would fly hands off on the GS like it was on rails. I used to try different airspeeds and it simply wouldn't fly right set that way. I'm trying to find that sweet spot on my 9A.
Several years ago my CFII showed me the sweet spot on for my 75 Sundowner on a ILS approach. It was 105, one notch of flaps and and quick turn on the trim. It would fly hands off on the GS like it was on rails. I used to try different airspeeds and it simply wouldn't fly right set that way. I'm trying to find that sweet spot on my 9A.
