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Baggage area mod

D

dinowal

Active Member
Hi Folks, I am nearing the end of the fuselage & preparing for the painting of the inside of the aircraft - I would like to do the mod to the baggage rear panel & baggage floor cover plate to give access for future inspections. As I don't yet have the Fuel tank installed I am a little unsure of where to cut these parts; - I have seen the pictures, but could someone who has done the mod give me some measurements - where to cut these panels? Thanks in anticipation for your help, cheers, DEAN..
 
Dean, if you can PM me your email address, I'll send you a copy of the drawings I did for mine.
 
Just remember that if you are going E-LSA, these mods must wait until after certification.
 
It may depend on the DAR. The rather unique issue with the RV12 has to do with the DAR perhaps wanting to both see all of the control linkages plus, in my case, witness a taxi test for brakes. The 12 would make for a long inspection and work day for that because of both the (unmodified) bulkhead panel and the fact that the tank is on top of one of the inside flaperon connections (unmodified) cover plate. In many cases the DAR may have to travel quite a way for the inspection.

Talk to your DAR. One altnative to the mod is to take lots of pics of those areas for your DAR to see, before you put in the tank, if they agree with that. The sticky thread on the front page of this forum has pics of the two mods. Also the mod for slots below the engine controls and a backer plate to make that center panel piece removeable without taking out the engine controls (a nasty job!)

Note that it might be possible to do the engine control mod in place, post-install with a Dremel, but no one has reported doing that.

So Mel - straight up - which if any of these mods would result in a flunked ELSA inspection from you? What's the line? For example, I used more tie wraps than the plans called for - so there is a spectrum... I realize there may be only one politically correct printed answer...
 
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I've posted on this before, but I'll put it out there again for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Instead of modifying the bulkhead I cut three 4" diameter inspection holes on the belly and one on the left side at the tail. This gives all the access I need for routine inspection and stabilator removal. I riveted doublers behind each opening and used 6 nut plates for each cover. I also put ports under each control stick for a total of 6 ports.

It's also easier for this old guy to look through the ports than it would be to climb into the baggage compartment.
 
A DAR is NOT authorized to sign off on any modifications not submitted in writing by the kit manufacturer.
He can require the applicant to remove anything necessary for a proper inspection.
For E-LSA certification, the aircraft MUST be constructed exactly according the the plans and instructions provided by the kit manufacturer.
Extra ty-wraps is one thing. Cutting inspection panels in the airframe is quite another!
 
I did NOT notice that. Thanks for the heads-up.

My points are valid for US E-LSA certification. Your country may vary!
 
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I negotiated an inspection configuration, in writing, with my DAR in advance - what was to be open, what closed, etc. Then he went Missing (overseas), and the FAA decided to do it themselves. We similarly decided in writing on a config. with photos of closed areas. They sent two guys and the DAR's 40 minute inspection became a 12 man-hour adventure, ending in an engine run.

Our pre-agreed config got tossed out early and lots more panels got opened. In the end, they never asked to see the Plans, my Builder's Log, or a single one of the over 1000 build photos I have.

OK - since someone else started this thread, I ask (with trepidation), about this oft-stated post C of A mod "freedom" to modify your E-LSA.

FAR 91.327 (b)(5) states - with regard to Light Sport aircraft having a Special Airworthiness Certificate, no person may operate that aircraft unless:

"Each alteration accomplished after the aircraft's date of manufacture meets the applicable and current consensus standard and has been authorized by either the manufacturer or a person acceptable to the FAA."

Mel ??????

Bob Bogash
N737G
 
That is for aircraft having a "Special" category airworthiness, as in Special Light Sport Aircraft (or S-LSA)

Kit built RV-12's are Experimental Category, E-LSA or E-AB, depending on which the builder chose to do. Either way it is still experimental category.
 
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Any certificate issued that is other than standard category (normal, transport, balloon, etc.) says Special on it, but there is a bunch of sub categories of special. (Look at the copy of the 8130-6 airworthiness application form you submitted)

A home built RV-12 has to be either an Experimental Amateur Built or an Experimental Operating Light Sport. I think you applied for E-LSA so on your pink slip it should say Experimental Operating Light Sport.

If it doesn't, then the E-LSA certification process must have been new to those FAA guys that spent all of those hours with you and they messed up.

The only the manufacturer can apply for (and receive) S-LSA certification on an RV-12.
 
Thanks

rvbuilder2002 said:
Any certificate issued that is other than standard category (normal, transport, balloon, etc.) says Special on it, but there is a bunch of sub categories of special. (Look at the copy of the 8130-6 airworthiness application form you submitted)

A home built RV-12 has to be either an Experimental Amateur Built or an Experimental Operating Light Sport. I think you applied for E-LSA so on your pink slip it should say Experimental Operating Light Sport.

If it doesn't, then the E-LSA certification process must have been new to those FAA guys that spent all of those hours with you and they messed up.

The only the manufacturer can apply for (and receive) S-LSA certification on an RV-12.
Click to expand...

Thanks all for your comments, - I didn't mean to open a can of worms! I am building in the experimental category here in Oz, & the AP, (authorised person, equivalent to your DAR, I think), will approve or maybe not approve of mods I have done when he does final inspection. I am liaising with an experienced RV technical counsellor as I go. Thanks, Bill H, I will consider your instrument panel mod. when I get there, - seems definitely a labour saver... Cheers, DEAN....
 
Request for inspection port mod plans

RFS....Though my ELSA 12 is painted (and has 22.9) hours on it and flying beautifully except for a plaguing heavy left wing which I am working on, I am very interested in your inspection port drawings and or pics. Thank you, in advance! Really appreciate it! Buzz
 
Buzz,

I installed a total of 6 ports:

1 - Right side near the tail to facilitate stabilator counter balance arm access.
1 - Just aft of the aileron auto pilot servo for inspections.
2 - Just forward and aft of the elevator cable wear block for replacement access.
2 - one under each control stick to access control linkage for adjustment.

I copied the design on my Cherokee. Each is a 4" diameter hole. I cut a 5.5" ring with a 4" hole to act as a doubler. I riveted the doubler in with 6 flush rivets and then riveted 6 nut plates in the gaps between the 6 rivets. The covers are 5" diameter disks.

You can get the doublers in in bending them so they can go through the 4" hole, just flex them a little so they don't crease.

Send me your email address and I'll send some pics.

Rich
 
RFSchaller said:
Buzz,

I installed a total of 6 ports:

1 - Right side near the tail to facilitate stabilator counter balance arm access.
1 - Just aft of the aileron auto pilot servo for inspections.
2 - Just forward and aft of the elevator cable wear block for replacement access.
2 - one under each control stick to access control linkage for adjustment.

I copied the design on my Cherokee. Each is a 4" diameter hole. I cut a 5.5" ring with a 4" hole to act as a doubler. I riveted the doubler in with 6 flush rivets and then riveted 6 nut plates in the gaps between the 6 rivets. The covers are 5" diameter disks.

You can get the doublers in in bending them so they can go through the 4" hole, just flex them a little so they don't crease.

Send me your email address and I'll send some pics.

Rich
Click to expand...

What a great idea! Count me in if you would bob @ rv-12.net
 
RFSchaller said:
Buzz,

I installed a total of 6 ports:

1 - Right side near the tail to facilitate stabilator counter balance arm access.
1 - Just aft of the aileron auto pilot servo for inspections.
2 - Just forward and aft of the elevator cable wear block for replacement access.
2 - one under each control stick to access control linkage for adjustment.

I copied the design on my Cherokee. Each is a 4" diameter hole. I cut a 5.5" ring with a 4" hole to act as a doubler. I riveted the doubler in with 6 flush rivets and then riveted 6 nut plates in the gaps between the 6 rivets. The covers are 5" diameter disks.

You can get the doublers in in bending them so they can go through the 4" hole, just flex them a little so they don't crease.

Send me your email address and I'll send some pics.

Rich
Click to expand...

Me too....please! ric dot dickison at gmail dot com
 
I'll get the pics tomorrow. I spent the day sweating in Phoenix heat trying to install a Freeflight ADS-B In/Out in my 12. The documentation is not straight forward, but the unit on my Cherokee worked great on the Oshkosh Haj, so I am putting one in the 12. It will probably take me all week.
 
If one of you will send me the pics I will post them in this thread.
Send to billhollifield AT iname DOT com
 
Pictures? Please send!

Please send the pix to me too!
I'm building EAB, so i can do them as i go.
Thanks a lot!
Dick Gossen
gossend@ gmail.com
 
I think the problem was that I recently changed all my passwords as a precaution after the latest Russian hacker campaign. You should all have them now.
 
Great! Be careful with the port for the counter balance arm, or you may get too close to the hooked edge if the fuselage skins. I dodged that bullet more by luck than design.
 
Here are the pics provided by RFS.

Port3.JPG


Port1.JPG


Port2.JPG
 
Bill; On 7/14/13 you wrote this;

"The sticky thread on the front page of this forum has pics of the two mods. Also the mod for slots below the engine controls and a backer plate to make that center panel piece removeable without taking out the engine controls (a nasty job!) "

What is a sticky? I could not find the photos or the sticky.
Thanks for the help.
Jerome
 
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