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  #1  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:46 PM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Default Using Call Sign in uncontrolled airspace

There have been some good discussions some time ago about this. Generally, I identify myself by color and type when calling out position, intention, etc....
"White and Red RV, blah, blah, blah......" I do not use my N Number.

I have done this for many, many years.

Today, flying into a field I have flown into dozens and dozens of times, I was scolded by some random guy on frequency, at each phase of flight. "Use your N Number like your supposed too." He continued to chirp each time I announced.
I continued to ignore the guy, by the way, who never did call out his N Number and wasn't part of the group in the pattern. When I landed, an RV landing behind me had a good chuckle at my expense all in fun. He had no issues with not calling N Numbers and commented about that guy being a jerk and tying up a busy frequency with nonsense.

Curious to know. Is there something in the regs I don't know about, missed, or changed? You don't even need to talk at all, so I would be surprised if not using an N Number would be in violation in uncontrolled airspace. I never hear jump planes calling N Numbers out. I never here pipeline guys either. I even heard a Chinook land today. Nothing but what they where, location and intentions, not even color! Shame

I don't see any value in calling out an N Number but am curious about the legality, and simply opinion from others.

By the way, I won't scold anybody over frequency unless I can be positive and constructive, or perhaps if they almost run me over....and you dont know how many times I wanted to call out to that spam can if he was ever going to turn base! (Ya, you probably do).
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Last edited by JonJay : 09-25-2018 at 07:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:59 PM
flyinhood flyinhood is offline
 
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I am also curious what everyone thinks.

I always report "red Rv" bla bla bla. Seems more informative and less wordy..
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:05 PM
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SmilingJack SmilingJack is online now
 
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+2

What good is my N number to people in the uncontrolled pattern? Can they read it from their position?

I think a color and type is a lot more valuable to identify me.
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:22 PM
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N804RV N804RV is offline
 
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Here's what the FAA says. But, plenty of people use type and paint scheme anyway. No skin off my nose personally. ****, I'm just happy when I look where pilots say they are and find them.

AC 90-66B, 10.3.1
"Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and
detection, but should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the
aircraft call sign. For example, “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, TWIN COMMANDER
FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TEN MILES NORTHEAST” or “MIDWEST
TRAFFIC, FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES
NORTHEAST,” not “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, BLUE AND WHITE TWIN
COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST
.”
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Last edited by N804RV : 09-25-2018 at 08:26 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:34 PM
Rallylancer122 Rallylancer122 is offline
 
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Location: Oconto, WI
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Guess the FAR's are pretty conclusive on using the N number.

With the RV's what's the consensus on type? I still use "Experimental 233M", but with 10,000 RV's out there have we earned our own type specific identifier. RV 233M? Vans 233M?

I used to fly a Meyers and they only built a hundred or so of those, but they got their own identifier. Heck, the other day I heard a Wing Derringer on frequency. The controller had to ask about that one.

DEM
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:37 PM
xblueh2o xblueh2o is offline
 
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This is one of those things like the restriction against using your mobile phone in the airplane. It isn't really the FAA, its the FCC.

47CFR§87.107 in short requires you to use either your N number or your FAA approved call sign.

Advisory Circular 120-26M is the current guidance on issuance of FAA approved call signs. Long story short, you have to have a good reason to be approved.

It is also addressed in the AIM.

So, the guy gets 5 points for being technically correct but minus 10 points for being pedantic over the radio about it. You never know, maybe he worked for the FCC or FAA.
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:43 PM
alcladrv alcladrv is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingJack View Post
+2

What good is my N number to people in the uncontrolled pattern? Can they read it from their position?

I think a color and type is a lot more valuable to identify me.
N-number might help if there are 2 or more of the same type like yellow cubs in the pattern, which I experienced once.

It's better than arriving without any radio calls.

It seems like it hardly matters what different pilots think because they'll each rationalize their opinion.

Maybe a review of well circulated operating practices is in order from the likes of FAA and AOPA:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...d_10-12-17.pdf

https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/a...sa08.pdf?la=en

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/.../AC_90-66B.pdf

Of course, these aren't regulatory, but it would be hard to explain away doing something counter to them if something happened. The catchall FAR 91.13 regarding careless and reckless operation could still be used against you.

Fly safe
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:45 PM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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10.3
Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions.
“ Self-announce” is a procedure whereby
pilots broadcast their aircraft call sign,
position, altitude, and intended flight activity or
ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used almost exclusively
at airports that do not have an operative
control tower or an FSS on the airport. If an airport
has a control tower that is either temporarily closed or operated on a part
-time basis
, and there is no operating FSS on the airport, pilots should use the published CTAF to
self-announce position and/or intentions when entering within 10 miles of the airport.
10.3.1
Self-announce transmissions may include
aircraft type to aid in identification and detection, but
should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the
aircraft call sign. For example, “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, TWIN COMMANDER
FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TEN MILES NORTHEAST” or “MIDWEST
TRAFFIC, FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES
NORTHEAST,” not “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, BLUE AND WHITE TWIN
COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST.
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Last edited by Plummit : 09-26-2018 at 01:45 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:46 PM
RV10Pilot RV10Pilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xblueh2o View Post
This is one of those things like the restriction against using your mobile phone in the airplane. It isn't really the FAA, its the FCC.
Sorry for the thread drift. Unfortunately, the current FAA funding bill will make it a FAA restriction.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:54 PM
Tomcat RV4 Tomcat RV4 is offline
 
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Location: Jacksonville,Fl. 32246
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All of you need to review MOST CURRENT FAA position on this , discourage what
type of id vs using N #
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