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RV-7/7a vs. Citabria/Decathalon

bkcauley

I'm New Here
Hope this is in the right place. Ive typed this once and my computer logged me out so here it goes again.

I know yall will have a bit of a biased opinion, but im getting ready to buy and acrobatic aircraft and its came down to these two.

I am aware of the differences in the cit/dec and for my goal its marginal. I really like the rv-7a being tri gear and that is my main decision in wanting a vans. The main thing I like about the cit/dec is its stunning good looks. I know the rv-7 wins hands down in speed but im not really looking for that. It is nice ti have however. But what would you guys choose and why. Im trying to make a VERY hard decision here.
 
Welcome BK.
These planes are so different that I don't know how anyone can answer that for you. It will take some stick time in each to determine which is best for you.
I flew a Citabria before my RV and I loved flying that plane but the two do not compare in anyway.
 
If you think you are going to get a truly objective opinion here regarding RVs I'd say that is a stretch.

Lots of pros and cons for each and both are designed for two different missions. Best define yours and then pick the one that best fits that.
 
I have some time in a citabria. I don't know anyone who owns any RV or of any that are based near me. Mark, If you where doing just short local flights and aerobatics do you think the RV would be fine for this? How does the power during maneuvers compare between the two?
 
Tail Slide

Are you planning on doing tail slides, or maybe some lighter aerobatic stuff?
 
Welcome to VAF!

Brian, welcome to VAF.

No one can answer that for you---------you need to get some time in each, and make your own decision.

But, let me add a bit of fuel to your fire.

Pesky wood spar A.D.s

Modern glass panel.

Upgrades to said panel.

Annual inspection cost.

Painted metal vs painted fabric longevity is parked outdoors.

Good luck, glad you are here.
 
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As others suggest, you should not only try to fly these various planes, but also figure out precisely what your goals an interests are. If you don't care much about aerobatics, the Decathlon probably doesn't make sense over a Citabria. You need to figure out if acro is important to you, because for all their visual similarities, the Decathlon is quite a bit nicer than the Citabria as an acro machine. The Decathlon also has full inverted systems, something that Citabrias don't have (except for the rare 7KCAB) and most RVs don't either, unless you add them - which is not trivial.

The RV will out fly both of these airplanes in almost every way, on less gas, but there's much more to an aircraft purchase decision than pure performance numbers. Good luck.
 
BK,
I flew the 150 HP Citabria and had a blast. The RV is excellent for local flights and aerobatics. I think you will find the power better in the RV and it develops speed on the downlines faster than the CIT. My mission is more travel and keeping the wife comfortable so the RV is hands down favorite. Also allows aerobatics. If I were to want to compete in IAC either would be good through Sportsman class.
You need stick time in each.
 
I fly a Super Decathlon in competition acro, am building a Rocket, and have stick time in all three. You really need to define your mission more closely. If you truly want to fly competition acro; the Decathlon is the winner hands-down. This may ruffle some feathers, but the RV's aren't very good acro machines - good enough for "gentlemen acro" but no more. I also travel quite a bit in our Decathlon and it works out pretty nicely. If your goal is simple "gentleman acro" any of the three are fine; the differences being in other flight regimes.
 
I do want to fly acro. The ability of both machines to do it, is my basis for deciding on these. And Very nice examples of decathelons are priced in the same group as nice 7a's. I don't want to compete, just for fun. The decision of a citabria is kind of based on it can do light acrobatics and is somewhat cheaper to buy. But as mentioned more to maintain. With the 7a's Being experimental how much does an annual run compared to certified craft. Last year my 1982 warrior II's annual was a bit over $1500 as the only thing it needed was one hose replaced and I opted for brake pads.
 
One more thing.................

Are you married???

If so, she also needs to get ride along time in each.
 
With the 7a's Being experimental how much does an annual run compared to certified craft. Last year my 1982 warrior II's annual was a bit over $1500 as the only thing it needed was one hose replaced and I opted for brake pads.

Depends. Since it sounds like you're talking about buying an already flying example, the cost depends on how much you do vs. an A&P (no IA required). If you hand it over and have the A&P do everything, then the costs are comparable for an E-AB as for a standard certificated aircraft. If you do all the work and just have the A&P sign off on the inspection, then it could be next to nothing (assuming you discount the cost of your labor). BTW, you could have done an owner assisted annual on your Warrior and saved just as much as you could have on an E-AB condition inspection.
 
I have about 500 hours in a 7KCAB and about 700 hours in my -4. I loved the Citabria, but the -4 is much more fun. The Citabria carries more and handles rough strips better. I never liked the wood spars (especially when I was upside down). The RV is faster, cheaper, smoother, more maneuverable, and way better looking. (Obviously, a -7A is not as good looking as a -4, but it does have redeeming qualities.) If I were to replace my -4 today, I would get something side-by-side to better accommodate my wife or kids. My one true love will always be tandem, however.

Good luck,
 
If you truly want to fly competition acro; the Decathlon is the winner hands-down. This may ruffle some feathers, but the RV's aren't very good acro machines - good enough for "gentlemen acro" but no more.

This has been beaten to death plenty, but the contest results among the few RVs that have competed in Primary and Sportsman prove otherwise.

Anyone want to loan me their RV to fly in Sportsman? Would be fun seeing how many Decathlons I can whip. :)
 
I had an RV-4 and did a few aerobatics in it. I sold it primarily because I was spending more time fixing than flying (1987 model). Bought a 2003 Super Decathlon primarily for my own fun doing aeros. The Decathlon feels like a solid pickup truck compared to the -4 which felt like a tinny sports car.

Do you like the sports car feel? Get the RV. Do you prefer something that feels more solid? Get the Decathlon.

Annuals on the Decathlon were under $1,000 per year - I did most of the work and the mechanic did the inspection, compression test etc.

My Rocket is now flying (so I sold the Decathlon :( ) but cannot do aeros in it until I get the paper work done with Transport Canada - hopefully the flight permit for the test flight will come through this week.
 
The Decathlon feels like a solid pickup truck compared to the -4 which felt like a tinny sports car.

My Rocket is now flying (so I sold the Decathlon :( )

How does your F1 EVO compare to the RV-4...a tinny sports car or a pickup truck? I love that EVO wing....
 
RV-7 vs Citabria/Decathelon

I had a Citabria before building my RV-7 so here are my thoughts.

First let me say I liked the Citabria and had a lot of fun in the plane. Owned it for six years and had 600 hours or so in it. Flew it along the Oregon Trail to the west coast and back from Maryland, plus Oshkosh, Sun 'N Fun & Maine

I've been flying the RV-7 for five and a half years and have about 850 hours or so.

First, I can honestly say the RV is twice as fast as our (old) Citabria was. You may not care about the speed, but that's because you have not experienced it. The speed opens up new worlds. You can get their twice as fast, go twice as far, for the same amount of gas. It took me four days to go coast to coast in the Citabria. I can do it in two in the RV. Comfortably. My wife and I can travel places I couldn't go in the Citabria, because it took too long. I can fly to Maine, Oshkosh or Key West comfortably in a day. Those were long, tiring, all-day (summer) or two-day flights in the Citabria. The speed gives you the ability to go around weather (if that's an option) whereas in the Citabria you would have to stop.

In addition to the speed, the RV has the power. The power to climb over airspace and mountains. I sweated flying over the Rockies in the Citabria; not a worry in the RV. The RV can climb to cruise altitude in a third of the time it took the Citabria.

My wife is much more agreeable to flying with me in the RV-7 because to her it's all about the destination. She wants to get high fast -- smooth air, high speed -- to get to the romantic getaway destination as soon as possible, and wants to sit by my side while doing it, not staring at the back of my head.

So the RV is far superior for travelling and cross-countries.

The RV can do gentlemen's aerobatics, the same as the Citabria. If aerobatics is your primary factor, I still wouldn't go Citabria/Decathelon, which I regard as an aerobatic trainer you will soon get bored with but go straight to Pitts, Extra, One Design, etc.

The RV gets the nod for formation flying, which is something you might want to get into if you went the RV route. It was something I never considered when building but have had a lot of fun with and has resulted in some great experiences (49-ship arrowhead formation over a Kansas City Chiefs game, for example). That brings up the RV community thing. There are over 7000 flying now; they are a few at almost every airport now. And flying is more fun when you are flying with other planes. Although I did have a lot of fun with some other Citabria-drivers in the Mid-Atlantic area.

The RV flies well at slow speed and it's not a problem getting into short grass fields, although not as short of the Citabria, but well enough.

Really the only thing I give the Citabria over the RV is in the low and slow regime. The high wing is clearly superior for sight-seeing down low. You have to constantly be banking your wings to see things in the RV. But that's kind of fun, actually. And you can always slow the RV down -- it turns pretty tight at 90mph!

Surprisingly, I think the RV is a more docile taildragger than the Citabria. You should also be aware of the RV's nimbleness. The Citabria was like a pickup truck; the RV is like a sports car.


As everyone says, the kind of flying you want to do should determine which way you go.

Hope this helps. Regards, Bill
 
I do want to fly acro. The ability of both machines to do it, is my basis for deciding on these. And Very nice examples of decathelons are priced in the same group as nice 7a's. I don't want to compete, just for fun. The decision of a citabria is kind of based on it can do light acrobatics and is somewhat cheaper to buy. But as mentioned more to maintain. With the 7a's Being experimental how much does an annual run compared to certified craft. Last year my 1982 warrior II's annual was a bit over $1500 as the only thing it needed was one hose replaced and I opted for brake pads.

Ok well first off a Citabria and a Decathlon are very different machines. I have a lot of time in both (7KCAB and a Super Decathlon) and I think of the Citabria as also a "gentleman's acro" machine. Yes it can be fine for competitions - I'm not saying it is not.

The Decathlon wing section is designed to enhance inverted flight - a semi-symmetrical airfoil - the Citabria has pretty much a Clark-Y airfoil. So you will see the difference even in something as simple as an aileron roll. The Decathlon is stressed for +6g,-5g. Its engine is a more powerful 180hp Lycoming IO-360 with an inverted fuel and oil system, attached to a constant-speed prop. The 7KCAB I flew has the inverted fuel which was nice. But I missed the C/S prop.

Today, if I could buy any of the three - a well built -4, a 7KCAB or a Super Decathlon, the -4 would win hands down.
 
How does your F1 EVO compare to the RV-4...a tinny sports car or a pickup truck? I love that EVO wing....

Still getting used to the F1, 30+ hours and no acro yet, but as for a comparison I would say while the RV-4 felt light and somewhat fragile to me, the Rocket feels (and is by 30%) heavier and more substantial than the -4. While the weights are similar you really can't compare the Rocket to the Decathlon though.

There is no substitute for power :D.
 
Just to pile on here a bit ... I did my tailwheel checkout in a 7ECA Citabria and still fly 7ECAs and 8KCABs (super D). Great planes, and way more fun than the PA28's I learned in.

Until, I got the taste of a -7. Wow. So responsive, so easy to fly, so comfortable and confident I felt. Did acro moves that I learned in the Super D with minimal effort. Doing a wingover was sublime.

I'm biding my time in the Citabrias, until the -7 gets launched.

They are great planes, both. However, an RV is the holy grail.

'nuff said
 
Thanks guys, hopefully this weekend I will be able to ride in a -8. I know with tandem seating it will be different but it might help the decision. Come to find out this gentleman actually wants to use my warrior for some family time. This might work out real well.
 
Gtmule I've tried to message you, but I'm having issues on mobile. I'm not that far from you. If you have time I would like to bring my wife up and see your plane. If possible could you message me your number.
 
Make sure you get a ride in the type you're looking at as well. A quick fit check revealed that I need to spring for an -8, as 6'3" / 210 lbs didn't fit too well in the -4 I sat in. The Super D has stupid amounts of headroom.
 
Im 5'-9/10 and 165. My wife is 5'3/4 ish and about 130 think we are fine for a 7? My son is 3 so we have a while to worry about him. :)
 
Im 5'-9/10 and 165. My wife is 5'3/4 ish and about 130 think we are fine for a 7? My son is 3 so we have a while to worry about him. :)

Pfft. I'm 5-11 and have a hundred pounds on you. The guy I flew with was an inch or so shorter and not as Churchill-esque as me, but not skinny either. We weren;t cramped, the 7 was substantially roomier than the 172 I was used to. You guys will have elbow room to spare.

That said, as I build I'm trying to lose another 60-70 pounds. :) Just so I don't bend anything getting in and out, you know.
 
Citabria/Decathlon/RV

The Citabria is a good bush plane and an awful aerobatic plane.It does not do sustained inverted. Even with the inverted systems when solo and full fuel it is descending while inverted with full forward stick.

The Decathlon is a delightful aerobatic plane(it has a different airfoil than the Citabria and is much stronger), marginal bush plane,and serviceable X/C plane.

The RV 3 and RV 8 (the only ones I have done acro in) have very nice roll rates and are quite capable of recreational aerobatics, they are not as strong or as rugged as a Decathlon. They can get way out of hand speed wise if a maneuver is botched and at that point you would wish you were in a stronger airframe like the Decathlon or a Pitts or Eagle.
 
Really like this thread.

I have owned a Decathlon and now own an RV-7...here's my take:

I loved some of the stuff I could do with the Decathlon.

I love ALL the stuff I can do with my RV-7.
 
I've had a Super Decathlon, S2B Pitts, and now have an RV8. I've never flown an airplane I didn't get tired of and wanted to sell after 30 hours.......until now! I've put 150 hrs on the 8.
 
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I've had a Super Decathlon, S2B Pitts, and now have an RV8. I've never flown an airplane I didn't get tired of and wanted to sell after 30 hours.......until now! I've put 150 hrs on the 8.

I love flying RV-8s but I have to have my RV-7 so I can transport model airplanes and still bring my wife along.

Cry for me because I have a 7...LOL!
 
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