My experience so far with the IPad in the cockpit

I recently bought a IPad to try and use in the RV.

I have purchased a RAM mount for it and an anti glare screen protector. The mount works fine.

Today I had my first flight with all this and I have to say that the technology is cool but I am very disappointed with the screen readability in the Sun. I do have a Koger sunscreen. Unit on full bright and manual brightness.

So far I have been testing Foreflight, Garmin My Cast and WingX. I think each has it's Pro's and Cons. WingX has crashed at least 10 times on me. The Garmin trial allows full downloads for flights. Foreflight has an annoyance in that it does not allow full downloads during the trial. This fact has me favoring the Garmin program.

Learned that I need to lock the screen orientation otherwise it will keep trying to flip during bumps.

Does anyone know how to stop the IPad from going to sleep if you do not touch it? I have set the auto lock to 15 minutes but there is no never setting.

To me the readability in the cockpit is a deal breaker. I will try a few more locations and report back.

There is a setting in Foreflight that allows the iPad to sleep or not. Go to settings for the iPad, click on Foreflight and scroll down toward the bottom of the list of settings options for the app. Turn the "allow iPad to sleep" option off.

I agree with you that sunlight readability is marginal, even with an anti glare cover and a Koger. I don't have mine mounted. I find that just holding it I can get it into a position/angle that makes it readable. I'm waiting for the iPad version "x" that will have a killer bright screen. It's my understanding that the iPad2 is no brighter...a disappointment.

Regards,

iOS4.x I believe has auto-lock settings of 2, 5, 10, 15 minutes and never.

Note that installing certain Apps can change these defaults (or eliminate the ability to change auto-lock).

I'm crazy about my iPad at home and even in the car. I find it completely unacceptable in the cockpit of my RV-6. I don't want to work that hard to be able to see the information. The Garmin 496 works, the iPad doesn't.

Yes people say I should use this or that cover on the screen. Maybe that works, but if it does, why isn't it included?

A pilot friend brought his iPad on a recent cross country. It's no good for cockpit use.

John Siebold

I really don't understand why any computing device comes with a glossy screen. iPad, laptop, monitor, whatever... I can't stand them and don't understand why anyone would want one.

With that out of the way, I recently took a looong cross-country to the Florida Keys in a rented Archer. This was also my first time making etensive use of the iPad in the cockpit, and I found it to be a very useful tool. While the plane did have dual 430s, the iPad gave me an additional source of information in a much more user-friendly package than the Garmin. I was pleasantly surprised that the built-in GPS kept a good position lock throughout the flight. (mind you, I still wouldn't depend on it as a primary nav source)

One slight downside was that the RAM yoke mount I purchased was very difficult to get positioned in such a way that I could easily read the iPad without it getting in the way of flying the plane. I'll have to experiment with that a little more to see if I can improve the situation.

If Foreflight (or someone else) works out a way to get XM weather aloft, this thing will really become a useful tool.

Good: Great, user-friendly source of data in the air
Bad: Glossy screen is definitely difficult to read if lighting conditions are subpar.

iPad on a kneeboard

I did a cross country (and a couple other flights) with the iPad and using ForeFlight. I tried a RAM mount suckshun cup mount and it wax not very readable. Thankfully it fell off. I say "thankfully" because it was nearly unreadable in the RV-8. HOWEVER, whenci put the iPad flat on my kneeboard, it was quite readable.

For whatever reason, looking down atvthe iPad made it much readable. I've since used it on my kneboard a few times and have been happy. I've just ordered an iPad specific kneeboard and wi
L write-up a review once I've had some experience with it.

The ipad is definitely not designed as readable as transreflective display and viewing angle plays a significant part of readability.

Yep!. The readability is not great. Neither is my Aera 510. You can see from the picture that SkyView is perfect, even in direct sunlight. Still, it's such a great tool in the cockpit.

I talked to the guys at ForeFlight at SnF. I asked them if they would working on a new map that is less cluttered than a sectional (and therefore more readable). They told me "just wait and see". The IFR enroute (low) shows up a little better than the sectionals do.

I'd like to see the PIREPs on the kneeboards. I lay the IPAD on my knee when flying approaches. Seems to be just too big to stay there however. Once I am established I get rid of it.

IPAD No Good???

RV7ator said:

A pilot friend brought his iPad on a recent cross country. It's no good for cockpit use.

John Siebold

Click to expand...

Wow! America is a wonderful place, freedom to speak our minds. I'm sure what you meant to say was, the IPad is no good for YOUR cockpit use.
One user has problems with WingX shutting down. Yet, I've been using WingX Pro 7 version 5 since it's introduction and have no problems. I can yank and bank to my heart's content and the screen never flips like some have complained about. I must have got all the settings right.

A question that comes to my mind about not being able to see the IPad display in an RV, how many of the complainers are using polarized sun glasses? I have two pair of sunglasses, one polarized. With that pair the IPad is hard to read in some light conditions but not impossible. With my transition bi-focals I haven't had a problem even with the Koger shade pulled back.

In summary, the IPad works out dam good in my cockpit!

Good info, ongoing research needed ...

Good thread. I hope that Brian and others continue to report on what works and what doesn't with the iPads. I was contemplating buying a 1st gen iPad specifically for flight planning and use it in the cockpit as an adjunct display to supplement my 496, but with the limited spare room in the RV-8, I think I'll hold off awhile.

I would imagine that the polarized sunglasses issue is something to consider regarding screen readability. I know that when I turn my iPhone sideways while wearing polarized glasses, the screen goes almost completely dark!

Keep the reviews coming!

My results are with no sunglasses at all. While polarized glasses are a definate factor to concider, this is not the smoking gun in respect to poor bright ambient light readability of the Ipad. To be honest I have no idea why I expected any different, the Iphone stinks as well outside and I have had one of those for two years. Should have known the Ipad with similar screen technology would be no different. I fell into the trap of placing too much weight on the positive reviews the Ipad has been having on here. Hopefully I can find a better place to mount it that will make it more usable in the RV. Maybe some sort of hood to velcro around it would help.

The flipping issue in turbulence is just because I did not set the iPad orientation lock. Some apps have built in settings for this and others do not. I have found no such app setting for WingX.
I have changed the default for my Ipad to make the mute button into a screen orientation lock button. This will stop the flipping screen in the bumps.

As for the crashes on WingX. The way an Ipad app crashes is it just disappears. This has happened at least 10 times while playing with WingX on the ground. The variables are pretty limited when it comes to stock Ipads so I doubt my case is special. This is a brand new Ipad with the latest firmware and a fresh download of WingX in trial mode. Nothing special about that.

All I ask is for the folks that claim that they can easily read their Ipad on a bright sunny day in a bubble canopy plane like the RV's with no shade or other extraordinary effort to shade the screen, please share the secret with the rest of us. I would love to use my high dollar device in the cockpit but I need to know the magic to making it work for me!

As you can tell, I am not a person that defends a device or purchase just because I sunk money into it. If it stinks for a particular purpose, I say it stinks even if it costed me $$$ to find that out.

I think there are several considerations to discuss when evaluating the i pad.

Remember Apple probably did not have pilot's in mind when they invented the thing so the screen isn't and probably never will be bright enough to make us really happy.

All of the Map/Chart programs are in their infancy and are getting better and more functional in an exponential fashion.

Many are wanting to replave their laptop with an I pad and this isn't what it was designed for either although there are no many apps that wil run .pdfs, spreadsheets,XL etc. So now you can perform a lot of your PC tasks on it, use it for mail, internet access, music and for flying.

In my opinion Foreflight is the best of the flight apps.

I use my i pad "in the cockpit" solely as a chart replacement device.

I used to purchase Noaa plates, sectionals, and low enroute charts with updates for the entire US every year. At $70+ you get all of that from foreflight in an easy to download, access and use format. I use it in a bubble canopy and yes I kind of have to move it around for good viewability depending on where the sun is but I can always find, see, and use what I want. This is opposed ot flipping through books of plates, unfolding and refolding charts or flipping through Howie Keefes chart books and AFDs. With a bad eld GPS I can alway find my current location on the i pad, this often taks a few minutes on a chart.

Airport info, frequencies, airspace, moa etc. info with the i pad is a snap. Not so with charts and books.

For moving map it is usable but will never compete with a Garmin portable. It currently doesn't have XM weather and may never but thats what the portable garmins are for. The badf elf GPS is really terrific but I still use my Garmin for moving map functionality.

If you are on a budget and a garmin portable isn't in your plans the ipad, bad elf GPS andd foreflight are definately better than dead reckoning and a cockpit full of charts and overall much cheaper.

You can pick up a used ipad for less than $350. The annual cost for a subscription to foreflight is $72 ($100 and something if you want georefrenced plates) and for that you get monthly updates, flight planning, an AFD, gas prices all the plates and charts, info at yor fingertips and downloadable weather for your flight as well as flight plan filing.

You don't need 3g wifi is sufficient and the small memory i pad does it all just fine.

It isn't perfect but it is getting better and in my opinion the best bang for the buck tool to come along in a long time.

Brantel,

I have some apps that crash (disapear) if I have too many things active. Usually restarting the IPAD, then only opening one app works pretty well.

Although the direct sunlight readability is marginal, I still think the IPAD/ForeFlight is awesome in flight.

I wonder if you mounted a hinge with a IPAD mount at the bottom of your instrument panel that you could fold under the panel when you are getting in and out and then drop it down once your in would work? I have thought about this with my 510.

We've been using it since day one in the -10.

We liked ours so much, my wife highjacked it and installed all sorts of apps and I mainly use it for trips and the local daily newspaper, so she bought me my own for Christmas

I guess having the 'roof' of the -10 must help readability.

In the -10 it is easily readable on the brightest days and I don't own any sunglasses. It also keeps me legal, with updated charts and approach plates.

Best,

Yep, I use mine in the car and it works fine as well. The roof sure does help!

pierre smith said:

We liked ours so much, my wife highjacked it and installed all sorts of apps and I mainly use it for trips and the local daily newspaper, so she bought me my own for Christmas

I guess having the 'roof' of the -10 must help readability.

In the -10 it is easily readable on the brightest days and I don't own any sunglasses. It also keeps me legal, with updated charts and approach plates.

Best,

Click to expand...

I hear you on this one. WingX is the only app that has crashed on me. I typically keep the running apps to a minimum using the new app managing tools.

I have noticed a pattern with when WingX will crash on me. It is when I move from an area with WiFi access to one with only 3G or vice versa. For whatever reason this switch seems to be what is causing the crash. This would not be a problem in the airplane but it does happen on the ground often for me.

I have been thinking about the possibility to mount it under the panel right below the throttle and mixture controls. I will mock this up and see how it goes.

apkp777 said:

Brantel,

I have some apps that crash (disapear) if I have too many things active. Usually restarting the IPAD, then only opening one app works pretty well.

Although the direct sunlight readability is marginal, I still think the IPAD/ForeFlight is awesome in flight.

I wonder if you mounted a hinge with a IPAD mount at the bottom of your instrument panel that you could fold under the panel when you are getting in and out and then drop it down once your in would work? I have thought about this with my 510.

Click to expand...

apkp777 said:

Brantel,

I have some apps that crash (disapear) if I have too many things active. Usually restarting the IPAD, then only opening one app works pretty well.....

Click to expand...

Many people don't know that the iPad keeps all of the apps open that you've used until you either do a complete restart (hold the power button on the top down for 3 or 4 seconds then swipe to confirm) OR.....


Here's a better, faster way to close the background apps that you don't need to have running.

1. Double-click the round button on the bottom of the screen. A list of all of your open apps will appear. If you haven't done this before or restarted recently you'll be amazed at what's running in the background.

2. Hold your finger on one of the apps that you want to close. A red minus sign will appear on the top of the app's icon. Click the red minus sign and the app will close.

3. Click the red minus signs on all of the other apps that you want to close. If you're running Foreflight, that's the only one I'd leave running for maximum speed and reliability.

4. Click the round button again when you're finished.

Double clicking the round button is also a fast way to switch between your open apps.

By the way, as another reference point and another opinion, I use Foreflight on the iPad as a replacement for my paper charts and procedure plates with my iPhone as the backup. On an IFR trip I also print out the main approaches at my destination and alternate. I don't have it mounted on a mount as it would probably be unreadable many times as others have mentioned, however when I'm holding it like I would a paper chart or procedure book I've always been able to hold it in a position where I can see it.

Foreflight for me is NOT a replacement for my primary GPS, nor is it even a main backup. It is a 3rd level backup with the BadElf GPS adapter. For that matter my iPhone can serve as my 4th level backup.....

Is it perfect???? Nope, but then neither is having to have 3 or 4 procedure books on a trip and 2 or 3 IFR low charts and 2 or 3 VFR charts and trying to keep them current. Everything is a trade-off and for me this makes sense. I love it. Foreflight is VERY intuitive and the folks there seem to be VERY customer oriented.

Best regards,

iPad for VFR

I should have clarified - I use the iPad for VFR flying so I am really using to replace Sectionals *and* for flight planning. It is great in the latter case. It makes my cockpit management in an RV-8 on solo cross country flights much easier and keeps my focus on flying.

I too have asked FloreFlight about high contrast VFR charts along the lines of where Jeppesen's "enhanced VFR" charts are headed.

A bit off topic but I realized that as an VFR pilot, I probably have the wrong "wallpaper" on my iPad ...

My experience is also a bit mixed, but definately more positive than negative and I take the Ipad with me all the time now. I've found the biggest difference in readability has been directly related to what kind/brand/type of screen protector I use. If you don't have a screen protector on it, get one - it can make a huge difference. If you are reviewing the Ipad without having a screen protector on it, then you're way behind the curve in relation to useability as it pertains to relfectivity. That being said, I've also discovered the crystal clear ones aren't very good, while some of the very flat matte ones also aren't good. There is quite a difference between brands/types, etc.. I've spent wayy to much on those protectors, but given my propensity to scratch everything touchscreen that I use, I can't live without it on my phone and Ipad.

I certainly can't agree with any blanket statments that all of them are worthless in all cockpits, or the alternative that they are perfect in every cockipit. There are always variables to each persons experience.

Overall it's good enough that I love my Ipad with Foreflight and would purchase it again (in fact I have...I just sold my Ipad1 to a fellow RV'er and ordered an Ipad2)!

Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein

Stein,

I do have an anti glare protector on the Ipad. It is one of the highest rated ones out there, the Moshi iVisor AG.

Which one have you found works best? If there is a better one, I am all for trying it!

I have not given up yet, I hope I can find the right combination to make it more usable in the RV7 cockpit.

O.K., Stein, now that you have opened the screen protector door, how about a specific recommendation??

Brantel said:

Stein,

I do have an anti glare protector on the Ipad. It is one of the highest rated ones out there, the Moshi iVisor AG.

Which one have you found works best? If there is a better one, I am all for trying it!

I have not given up yet, I hope I can find the right combination to make it more usable in the RV7 cockpit.

Click to expand...

That's just it...I threw away the darned package and don't remember for sure what I have on here right now, but it's pretty darned good. I think I'm using a "Power Support" brand right now though I'm not entirely sure. I've used the Moshi ones, but didn't really like them. I've found that the cheapest ones are almost junk, and the most expensive ones are also not necessarily better..but the ones in the middle seem to be pretty good. If I can't find out which one I have on here now, I'll be starting that search all over again!

Cheers,
Stein

Brantel said:

I have been thinking about the possibility to mount it under the panel right below the throttle and mixture controls. I will mock this up and see how it goes.

Click to expand...

This is where I have mounted mine and I find it one of the best place/orientation to mount to be readable. While this location is not possible with a passenger, but I find it the cleanest looking, best access to the IPAD and easiest viewing for IFR scan. The angle of it, reflects light the least as well.

IPAD is not in any way comparable with the EIFS for aviation GPS from Garmin in terms of viewing, but it provides a great tool (ForeFlight is my preferred app) for all aviation maps, A/F and charts. I have come to love mine as more I use it.


IPAD Ram mount 1 by bavafa1, on Flickr


IPAD Ram mount 2 by bavafa1, on Flickr

The 4G iPhone with the Retina display is a lot better in the cockpit than the iPad is. So when they come out with a Retina iPad that's when I'll upgrade. As others have pointed out there are varying degrees of quality for screen protectors, and I've found some work better than others. The Incipio anti-glare seem to to work the best...I have them on both my iPhone and iPad.

Bob,

I have not found my Iphone4 screen any more readable in bright conditions as the original 3GS I had. While the display is a little sharper in normal conditions, I don't think the Retina or whatever marketing name they gave it matters much for bright conditions.

N8RV said:

Good thread. I hope that Brian and others continue to report on what works and what doesn't with the iPads. I was contemplating buying a 1st gen iPad specifically for flight planning and use it in the cockpit as an adjunct display to supplement my 496, but with the limited spare room in the RV-8, I think I'll hold off awhile.

I would imagine that the polarized sunglasses issue is something to consider regarding screen readability. I know that when I turn my iPhone sideways while wearing polarized glasses, the screen goes almost completely dark!

Keep the reviews coming!

Click to expand...

With my particular pair of polarized glasses, I can only use the iPad in landscape orientation. Luckily, that's the orientation I like anyway. But turn it to portrait orientation and I can't see a thing.

Don't want to thread jack here

but there is a style of polarized sunglasses with bifocal insets. The cool thing is that the bifocal reader section is not tinted nor polarized. These are available a sporting goods stores. They were designed for fishing where you are looking down at a GPS and don't want the polarization interference.

Around $20.00 bucks at Gander Mountain, Dicks etc.

These are all the same issues I have with readability of the Anywhere Map Duo. Great product marred by a marginal -but useable- screen. I do not leave home (nor shoot an actual approach) with out it!!

I have decided to go with Foreflight for my first paid aviation app. I only went with the three month subscription for the first go round to make sure I like it.

The downloads went very well and it makes the program much more valiable since it does not need Internet access after you download. Sure wish the trial did not have this limitation.

The only thing I do not like about Foreflight is that it does not allow you to layer overlays on the maps like some of the others do. It would be nice to have this functionallity.

Brantel said:

Bob,

I have not found my Iphone4 screen any more readable in bright conditions as the original 3GS I had. While the display is a little sharper in normal conditions, I don't think the Retina or whatever marketing name they gave it matters much for bright conditions.

Click to expand...

My iPhone has a rubber case and I just shoved it between the windscreen and the glareshield and had no problems seeing it running SkyCharts.

I have Jepp Mobile TC on the iPad and can read charts on it without trouble either, but its not as readable as the iPhone as I stated.

Brantel said:

IThe only thing I do not like about Foreflight is that it does not allow you to layer overlays on the maps like some of the others do. It would be nice to have this functionallity.

Click to expand...

I would not be surprised to see that functionality very soon. They have been amazingly responsive to the users request and in short period of time, provided a number of upgrades that has improved it so dramatically. I would like to see that functionality just as well and I hope they hear this request loud and clear

I just got my Ipad and tried it in my RV6 today. If was very difficult to read. I don't have polarized sunglasses. I do have transition lens glasses however. I am on this forum to research what works best for a mount and if there are any products that work to reduce the glare. It doesn't appear so, based on what I have read on this thread.

Android

My Tablet ?2 Cents? Opinion Only:

Recently, intrigued by the ?cool? aviation apps being released for tablet computers, I?ve started shopping for tablets. I?ve looked at iOS (iPad) and the various Android tablets including the HTC Flyer, Samsung Galaxy, and even the Color Nook. My first impression is that most of the Android tablets are of a much more convenient cockpit size (somewhat smaller) than the iPad. From a brightness standpoint, the HTC Flyer seems brighter and easier to read than other tablets, but still highly questionable for cockpit use. Also, all the touch-screen tablets have glossy, glare-reflecting screen surfaces; not a good thing in a sunny cockpit.

Like you, I?ve been reading about the iOS vs. Android war, and I?m guessing that there is probably not going to be one main winner in the tablet format battle as in past format battles (Mac vs. PC, VHS vs. BetaMax, Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD, etc.). It looks like both iOS and Android are going to be around. Also, it?s likely that there will be more tablet OS?s still around; certainly Windows and possibly the Blackberry Tablet OS. If there is one ?primary market share? winner I?m guessing that the long-term winner will be Android (Google) due to respective business models, software developer models, and current momentum (the iPhone is already starting to drop behind its Android-based competition; it appears that the iPad is likely to do the same).

I notice that both Foreflight and WingX are wisely developing Android apps: Foreflight is offering weather; WingX already offers geo-referenced charts.

Accordingly, if I decide to go the tablet route I?m looking at Android tablets; not the iPad. Apple is great at starting a market and looking like the early winner, but Apple is not so good at finishing due to Apple?s controlling business philosophy and software development models. In the tablet market, the iPad seems like more of a fad and trend-starter than a long-term winner. I?m thinking that Google (Android) is going to knock Apple off its current tablet dominance just like Microsoft did in computers. This will start to happen next year; if not sooner.

Am I seriously thinking about going with a tablet? The current answer is NO. Certainly, glare issues might be fixed with an overlay, but low brightness cannot be fixed except with new hardware. If a really bright, Android-based tablet is released then I?m back in, but not before then. In my opinion, due to low brightness, tablets are just not ready for ?prime-time? in the cockpit. On the other hand, I?m guessing that someone will realize that they need to design a very bright, well-sealed tablet for outdoor use. It seems that tablets are going to be used much more outdoors than laptops are today.

Does anyone have a different opinion and, if so, why?

Take Care Out There!

Bill Palmer

I too wanted an Android based tablet, mostly because I just detest Apple's desire to control what you do and don't do. However, after walking into my local Verizon store and seeing first generation iPad's Wi-Fi only, 64 G's on sale for $399 I surrendered and bought an iPad. Actually my wife bought it for me for my birthday. The next day I bought her one...

I love the apps. The stuff I really wanted was really only availble in force for the iPad and the Android stuff was still being developed. I may break down next year and go the other way but for now this works.

I sure wish I knew of a good screen protector for the cockpit! Now if only I could order the wing kit...

Bob

Apple Vs Androids...

I too resisted Apple's iOS dominance and bought a Verizon HTC "Incredible" android phone last year. While I discovered that droid app developers have posted thousands of Apps, it's mostly all junk amateur stuff. Apple has been in this market segment so much longer, that App writers (companies) have invested heavily in the iOS market. I could find very few aviation related Apps that could hold a candle to what has been developed for iOS.

When the iPad came out, it took a year for the droid segment to put out any "competition". In the meantime, again, developers fully embraced iPad as the standard. To this day, 2 yrs later, this still holds true. So I broke down and bought the iPad 2 shortly after its release and subscribed to Foreflight Pro, and now, I won't fly without it.

Yes, the iPad display doesn't hold a candle to our EFIS's, but neither does it consume AMPs of power. I suspect the display issues have to do with power consumption issues. While it's not perfect, neither is the real world, and I've found it "useable" at worst and amazing at best. I find the large display a huge asset in making chart details readable.

As a side note, I just read in AW&ST that Alaska Airlines has decided to issue every one of their pilots an iPad to replace their paper charts. I think that says something as to the robust nature of the iPad in the cockpit.

Bill Palmer said:

My Tablet ?2 Cents? Opinion Only:

Recently, intrigued by the ?cool? aviation apps being released for tablet computers, I?ve started shopping for tablets.

--- snip ---

Like you, I?ve been reading about the iOS vs. Android war, and I?m guessing that there is probably not going to be one main winner in the tablet format battle as in past format battles --- snip --- It looks like both iOS and Android are going to be around.

--- snip ---

I notice that both Foreflight and WingX are wisely developing Android apps: Foreflight is offering weather; WingX already offers geo-referenced charts.

--- snip ---

Accordingly, if I decide to go the tablet route I?m looking at Android tablets; not the iPad. Apple is great at starting a market and looking like the early winner, but Apple is not so good at finishing due to Apple?s controlling business philosophy and software development models. In the tablet market, the iPad seems like more of a fad and trend-starter than a long-term winner. I?m thinking that Google (Android) is going to knock Apple off its current tablet dominance just like Microsoft did in computers. This will start to happen next year; if not sooner.

Am I seriously thinking about going with a tablet? The current answer is NO. Certainly, glare issues might be fixed with an overlay, but low brightness cannot be fixed except with new hardware. If a really bright, Android-based tablet is released then I?m back in, but not before then. In my opinion, due to low brightness, tablets are just not ready for ?prime-time? in the cockpit. On the other hand, I?m guessing that someone will realize that they need to design a very bright, well-sealed tablet for outdoor use. It seems that tablets are going to be used much more outdoors than laptops are today.

Does anyone have a different opinion and, if so, why?

Take Care Out There!

Bill Palmer

Click to expand...

Agree on about 90%

In about 3 to 5 years, we will have hardware that we would like to have now. In 5 to 7 years, Android will dominate the market just like Microsoft did with PCs. Apple is number 1 right now.

Having flown with a friend and his iPad in my RV, the visibility issue is not a big issue with me. Yes it is not perfect but I found it to be acceptable in my aircraft (RV-6 Slider) in the SoCAL sun around 1300 local time. Yes it does leave a lot to be desired but the display is identical to the iPhone in the sun. An anti-glare screen goes a long way to making an unusable display marginally acceptable.

Today, I used my iPhone 4 (with anti-glare screen) SkyCharts app to intercept an airway (between 1600-1700 local time), and identify the next airway that I wanted to fly on. I use SkyCharts on my iPhone 4 the same way I would use a map. I was thinking about using it to request a GPS IFR approach to CCB but since today was the first day that I have flown since May 1 due to pneumonia, I decided to just enjoy the excellent VFR weather.

Having had the opportunity to fly with a friend and his iPad and use it the same way as a chart and approach plate, I found the display visibility in my cockpit to be less than ideal but thought it was good enough to order an iPad 2 so that I can have IFR charts in my airplane for the SoCAL to Pennsylvania to Oshkosh back to SoCAL trip this summer. The iPad will be used for VFR charts and IFR only IF needed on this trip. I will have backup paper VFR charts but the backup IFR material will be my iPhone4 and any paper approach plates that I print out in advance.

I know that the iPad leaves a lot to be desired and has a lot of short comings. As of today, it is the least expensive way to have electronic charts in our airplanes.

I believe that all PCs and tablets need to be replaced every 2 to 3 years. I try to replace my notebook and primary PC every 2 to 3 years. The iPad purchase was instead of a replacement for my 3 year old notebook. Yes I do loose some functionally by going with an iPad but it will do between 85% and 90% of what I want to do with a notebook while on the road.

IMHO, the longer one can wait to switch to an EFB on a tablet, the better off they will be. For me, I think the iPad is my best bet TODAY. (based on hardware and software that is presently available) I will be using it for about 30-hours of cross-country flying in July. I will have current WAC charts for the country with me plus an older version of Jeppsen FlightStar on my notebook. The only IFR charts and plates I have with me will be on my iPad and iPhone 4. At the present time, I plan to have Foreflight (based on VAF reports of EFB software) on the iPad and I already have SkyCharts on the iPhone. I plan to print approach plates for the places that I may need them. Yes I have an approach certified GPS (GX60) with current Jeppsen Database subscription. (I could sell updates like others in the VAF classifieds but I only have 13 datacards and do not want to sell them with a card but could. IF I were to do that, I would not sell them for less than what others are selling them.) I also have a Garmin 396 in the airplane for backup plus the SL30 with CDI / GS and ACU. The purchase of iPad and e-charts for one year, will save me about $200 of IFR charts and plates purchase for a one time trip but I will have the iPad for my entire PDF tech library for use in the hangar or on the road. IF I like the iPad, I will cancel all my subscriptions except for the LA TAC, local WAC chart, local Low Altitude IFR chart, and SouthWest Pilots Guide. This will be a savings of $200 per year for me by gong to e-charts on the iPad with the benefit of current everything for IFR operation.

I am hoping that the iPad2 I ordered can replace a notebook / netbook for traveling plus serve as an EFB. I believe that the jury is still out on if it will be an EXCELLENT EFB but I do believe that it will be at the least a mediocre EFB. I am hoping that I can use it to fly from SoCAL to VVS in Pennsylvania then to OSH without needing to open a paper chart. Since I have already flown from SoCAL to Texas without every opening a chart (I did open a book to get info on ABQ Class C frequencies and altitudes), I am thinking that it will not be an issue since I know how to use my GX60 and 396 to get most of the flight info needed. I do not have XM weather. I monitor 122.0 while flying. I use Weathermeister.com as primary weather, NOTAM, and TFR info.

I intend to put all the Lycoming, LASAR, and Slick tech manuals on the iPad. I will now have my technical library with me for service if needed. The tests that I have done with PDF file to my friends iPad and to my iPhone4 suggests that the paper can be eliminated for the e-paper that exists on the iPad. Yes it takes time to get use to reading stuff on an electronic device. It took me several years to learn to read and understand what I read on an electronic device. I am old enough that growing up, the TV was entertainment and not a learning tool. It did take several years for my old eyes and brain to learn to use an electronic screen to learn from instead of paper and books.

I hope that my iPad2 purchase at least satisfies my need for a replacement notebook / netbook. IF I am lucky, it will also be an acceptable EFB.

BTW, I turned my iPhone 4 3G, and Cell data OFF before departing. I also turned the iPhone off. Over Dagget VOR, I turned the iPhone 4 on and had position location almost instinctively. Someone said that the iPhone 4 A-GPS chip was the same one that is used in the iPad. I will be testing the iPad to see if it can also find where it is by having it OFF and turning it on about 1-hour after takeoff. I did buy an iPad 3G with GPS so that I did not need to buy a separate GPS. I will find out if the EXTERNAL GPS is really necessary for iPad use in the air.

Jenny and I covered 600 miles yesterday.

We took my stepson back to Camp LeJeune, N.C. a Marine base, yesterday. 300 miles up and 300 back. The iPad was wonderful and easily seen, because the -10 has shade built in

We're legal and I press the "sleep" button while it lays aside and save battery. Info about MOA's and restricted airspace with a touch, using SkychartsPro.

Best,

I have an Ipad2 with an anti-glare screensaver and have no sunlight readability issues. It's not that the issue doesn't exist but there's a learning curve in working around. Prior to getting an Ipad 1, I had an IFLY that I had major sun readability issues. Eventually I got that to where I could comfortably read it but it took several different mounting locations, home made sunshades, experimentation with proper viewing angles, canopy shade, etc, till I got it right. Same thing with the Ipad 1, so by the time I got the Ipad 2 it worked well on first install location. Some things to consider:

Ipad 1 has substantially more glass (thickness) than the 2 and is more prone to reflections. Ipad 2, out of the box, is brighter and easier to read than Ipad 1. Ipad 1 is more prone to crash than Ipad 2 on more recently updated apps such as WingX that take advantage of faster ipad2 processor for updating screen.
Stable, viewing angle is critical to minimize glare. Mounting on panel, under glareshield seems to consistently give the best results. Canopy shade definitely helps as does an anti-glare screensaver.
Ipad in flight is almost as bright and easy to read as my 10" Skyview.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flybuddy/

Some Additional Observations

In a covered, wide cockpit (airliner or RV-10) the environment is more like a shaded indoor environment. There are more options for tablet positioning to increase relative brightness and reduce glare. Under a bubble canopy, there are fewer options in a much brighter outdoor environment. In a side-by-side RV, tablet size starts to become an issue, but arguably a manageable one. There is at least some room to experiment with tablet positioning to reduce panel cover-up, increase shade, and reduce glare. Certainly, an overhead or tablet sunshade would help a lot.

For the tandem RVs, tablet size becomes an issue. A large tablet is likely to block some other information or access; it?s more difficult to find a mounting position. Of course, there is always the kneeboard option, but then brightness and glare become a challenge. It seems to me that the tandem RVs require some creative thinking and probably some hand-shading to make the current tablet displays somewhat readable in sunlight conditions.

From the standpoint of software development, I would agree that the current iPad apps are, for general applications, more professional than the Android apps. On the other hand, as long as aviation software developers like Foreflight and WingX are entering the Android development world, who cares? Also, software developers are going to follow the hardware numbers, and Android tablets are clearly increasing rapidly in numbers. As the number of Android tablets increases, I would assume that the amateur Android developers will get squeezed out of the general-app market by professional software developers and improved Android apps.

My personal bottom line is that I?m in a ?wait-and-see? mode until the tablet world becomes a much clearer and brighter place than it is today. I?m looking for that super-bright, ?outdoor tablet? breakthrough. Only time will tell!

Bill Palmer

Bill:

When you start flying your RV8-A, use PAPER while test flying.

After you learn the airplane, the Tablet market and Apps will be more Mature than they are today.

The iPad that I flew with in my airplane was used just like a chart, approach plate, or knee pad. On my knee. That worked for me. I have an knee / leg mount from Aircraft Spruce that I will be using.

(1st message sent from my iPad 2)

RV6_flyer said:

.

(1st message sent from my iPad 2)

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I'd call that a successful test!

Keep in mind that the Ipad is not a mega thousand dollar aviation unit. It is a $500 tablet that, when traveling can take the place of ALL your charts for much less money than paper while taking up a fraction of the space. It can also replace your laptop, replace your books, etc., saving weight and space on trips. It's got about a gazillion other uses outside of flying also. If I didn't fly, I'd still have one (my wife, 16 yr old son and 9 yr old daughter all have one).
Just trying to make a point that even if you can't mount it or have glare issues, it still has good value for most people, sales of the unit obviously supports this contention.

Also, here's a quote from a story on the net. (They've got some bubble canopies also)

Since November last year, marine pilots have been using iPads and more recently iPad 2s with digital maps, which allow the crews to search out locations in the region at the tap of the screen rather than flicking through map packs that are heavy and take up room in the cramped cockpits of aircraft such as the AH-1W Cobra and the F/A-18 Hornet.

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I like iPad and foreflight

I purchased and ipad2 with fore flight. I do look at charts anymore. I fly 135 in the Bahamas and have no issues with glare? I do not have it mounted but res it in my lap. Best aviation purchase I have made besides the -7A
Kevin Phelps

Ipad button sensitivity

I am just starting to use my Ipad 1 in flight with ForeFlight. One problem I have had is button sensitivity in bumpy conditions. I inadvertanly would touch the map and a pop up of the nearest airport would come up. This is nice but not if you didn't want that and it was caused by the bumps and my fingers just touching the screen. Can the touch sensitivity be turned down for rough air? Anyway, I think I am going to reall like the Ipad and I think ForeFlight is a great App at a reasonable price! I may have to add some sun screen to my canopy which ism't a bad idea anyway.

Which screen protector have you found that works the best on the iPad?

Bob

bhassel said:

Which screen protector have you found that works the best on the iPad?

Bob

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That seems to be a several hundred dollar question...Lots of people recommend the one they are using, problem is most can't tell you what brand it is.

Those things are ~$30 a pop so it cost some $$$ for the trial and error method.

I tried the Moshi iVisor one and I hate it. Loved the concept of the Moshi since it guarantees no bubbles but the Moshi sits so far above the glass, it causes major problems in the bright Sun. I already ripped that sucker off and threw it away. Bought one for my Iphone as well and threw it out as well.

Hopefully the PowerSupport HD anti glare I have on order is much better or I am giving up on these screen films.

Nothing beats the bare screen if you can keep it positioned in a way to prevent reflections from blinding your view.

PowerSupport HD anti glare

Brian

You will like PowerSupport screen cover.... I have seen 4 different ones before I selected this one. I have one on my Iphone as well. Very durable and no bubbles. Easy to install with no liquids.

I had ordered off ebay making sure they said anti-glare (matte finish). Able to find them for less than 10 bucks.

Ordered what Make and Model off Ebay for 10 bucks?

Brantel said:

Ordered what Make and Model off Ebay for 10 bucks?

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Sorry--if I knew it I would have posted..Like most folks--you buy it, install it and throw the packaging away. Here's an example (2 for $5.45 with free shipping)

I have always flound these dirt cheap ones to not be worth the package they come in. Tried some with my Iphone and was very disappointed.