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Cheap RV

johnr9q

Member
I have little money but want to build a side by side RV (that would be an RV-6,7,9 or 14 (not a 12) What's your opinion of using the classified to put together an airplane from parts that people want to get rid of at bargain basement prices (if they do that sort of thing) and end up with a complete airplane? How would you suggest going about this?
 
This will be interesting to watch the opinions.

I’m not a builder, just a buyer, and I think often you can purchase a used RV (especially a -6) for a price that is similar to the price of the parts.

If you build you also have expenses of tools, workplace, supplies like chemicals, rags, and band-aids :eek:

Hard for me to imagine your idea would be “inexpensive” or a way to save money, when the ultimate goal is owning a 2 seat, side-by-side, flying RV machine.

As I’ve seen others post, if you want to build then build, if you want to fly, buy.

EDIT - Best advice might be visit the shops of some builders. Go to EAA meetings and talk over expenses involved. Maybe a partnership is the less expensive way to get access to fly an RV.

Carl
..
 
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all over again

if I had to do it all over again I would have got a fixer upper or a already flying and get better accustomed to ownership and then went out and get a kit of same make and go for it. many paths to the summit
 
Easier said than done. One of the hardest issues in building an RV is keeping the momentum going. It takes $$$ to maintain a bunch of that momentum. My build project would grind to a halt until I got up off my wallet and made purchases of components/kits/supplies. Unless you collect all of the bargains you can find before you need them, it will be hard.
I think one of the best ways to get a "cheap" RV would be to take over someone else's abandoned project, but you will still have plenty to work on and need quite a bit of resources to get it airworthy. There is always the problem, too of poor build quality in some of these abandoned projects. I bought a tail kit from another builder and after further inspection, decided to buy a fresh kit from Van's. (He sweetened the deal with about $2K worth of tools with the tail for only $500!). I looked for lots of bargains during my build and found many here on VAF and took advantage of everything I could to save money. My RV-9A still cost north of 90K to get flying (lots of upgrades, but with a rebuilt engine), and that's not including paint and upholstery, which came later.
It has been worth EVERY PENNY!
 
It may be cheaper to shop around for a decent, older flying RV than building a new one from bargain basement or abandoned sub-kits where you may not be sure of the quality of workmanship. It would probably get you in the air quicker too, even if it took a while to find the right aircraft. Alternatively re-building a damaged RV may be worth considering, provided the work required is well defined.
 
Good luck!!!

I went into this building thing with a similar mindset. First off what is it that you consider "little money" because to some people 100K is little and to others 10K is? I bought a preowned tail and wing kit and saved about 5K right there. Unless you can find a fuselage kit someone is sellling then you are buying from Vans. Same goes with the finishing kit. I have been on this site for a few years now and it is hard to remember anyone selling a set of complete kits including the finishing kit. They don't come up that often and if they do you probably wouldn't want them anyway due to the build quality. Many people start this and end up selling but didn't get the finishing kit. You are looking at 7K+ for the finishing kit for a 9A which is what I'm building.
I'm not buying top of the line new anything really. I just bought an engine which is new but had sat for 7 years so saved about 5K there vs a new build. My long winded point is that you can find used kits and used parts but it will take a LONG time to find enough decent cheap used parts to build an entire airplane. You are still going to be a long ways from that 10K and much closer to that 100K.
 
the biggest problem is you will still need to put the fan up front and something to drive it. there just aint no cheap engines out there anymore.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
the biggest problem is you will still need to put the fan up front and something to drive it. there just aint no cheap engines out there anymore.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

How true!! I looked for over a year and thought I would buy used but in the end couldn't find what I wanted. Used engines weren't cheap enough to make it worth it. Adding in the overhaul puts you pretty close to what I paid for a new one. One overhaul shop I called told me to just buy a new engine. Pretty sure the OP can cross the 14 off his list just due to the engine and prop.
 
Been there

Yes you can do this but with a warning. You have to know what you are buying in terms of build quality. If you don’t know what you are buying, find another local RV builder to check it out first!! Built or mostly built empanage kits are common but the quality will variy as for many, this is the first step into the learning curve of building. I started with buying a built 7 empanage kit that was a “ good price”. I then found a complete 9 kit that was mostly built. It was also a “great price”. I traveled about 400 miles to pick it up.

Very long story short. I had sold the 7 tail kit that I never touched and having to give the money back to the buyer after he got into it and found many errors. 100% loss. Lost 50% on the 9 kit after spending a year trying to rebuild and discovered the wings where so poorly built, they where not usable.

I decided I did not want to deal with other people’s mistakes any longer and started a slow build with everything fresh and new from Van’s.

Although this process helped me get up the learning curve with building, it was an expensive lesson with both time and money.

The lesson is clear, you can save money by buying used kits, but be careful. They have to be first checked out by a knowledgeable builder.

In the end you want to feel safe and have pride in the plane you built.
 
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the biggest problem is you will still need to put the fan up front and something to drive it. there just aint no cheap engines out there anymore.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB

Not so. One can pick up an H2AD cores for $2K. It just takes a different mount that Van's still sells (I believe.) I just overhauled one last week and I absolutely love those engines. There are several favorable attributes they have when compared to other Lycomings. For example, the tappet bodies and lifters can be easily be removed and replaced without having to split the case. Another example...the rocker pedestals are shimmed so differing lengths of pushrods are not necessary to get your dry tappet clearances in spec.
 
H2AD

I also had very positive experiences with my 'H' engine. The horror stories from it's early days cause it to be way under priced and looked down upon. Because it is so close to O-360 specs, I've always wanted to soup one up. A famous engine builder I talked to agrees with it's potential.
 
For most the airframe itself is the least expensive part of the build. Your might save a few dollars buying other people?s mistakes, but pay more to get the replacement parts to fix them. Other than buying a never touched kit, what are the odds that some master builder just throws in the towel on a project and sells it off cheap?

Now overlay the extra time to do what you suggest.

RV building is hard enough for most, don?t make it harder.

Carl
 
Even with finding OLD RV 4 complete kit bought at less than 1/2 price, using Subaru 2.5
engine, Canadian PSRU and prop,basic Dynon, AND 9 YEARS BUILDNG, had $30K plus lot
of change spent on misc hardware ! ! Tom
 
just buy one

I bought my complete rv-7a kit from a builder that decided not to finish. As many as stated here already the build quality is something to watch out for. The tail kit on mine is pretty bad. I am going to use it to practice painting then it will become wall art. I already had a new unstarted tail kit when I bought the project so I didnt care about the tail when I was buying it. The other workmanship got better along the way but nothing too critical was done yet. The money saved ends up spent in extra time reworking, I thought many times to sell out and just buy a flying rv-6A. There have been some really great examples for sale over the last year for well under 60K. There was even one built by Tony Bingelis with an asking of only 49 not to long ago.
 
I think the only way to get an RV on the cheap is to get a project at a bargain basement price that somebody wants to get rid of. Selling a project is where people lose the most money. It sounds rather callous to suggest profiting from what is usually a sad day for a builder, but that is the reality. Of course if you go that way you can get stuck with a lemon too. There are no guarantees that you can save money.

Also, there is a class of RV that is cheaper - the old school wood prop steam gauge airplanes sell a lot cheaper than the fancier glass cockpit CS prop machines. They are just as much fun to fly. I think it is a tossup in terms of the cheapest way to get into the air.

If you buy an old airplane you can pretty much count on having to put in $10k to bring it up to snuff - stuff will start breaking on you right away - Murphy's law. Been there done that. Got a "great deal", then overhauled the engine and replaced all the systems (not an RV but it makes no difference).

It all comes down to whatever deal you find and if you are a builder vs a flyer. It is really hard to do anything inexpensively in aviation. Also, you can't just buy a rivet gun and a socket set and expect to be able to build. You have to spend $2k+ in tools to be able to rivet. People try to cheap out but when you end up buying more stuff as you need it after a while you look in your tool box and find $4k in tools in there and you realize that each of the separate purchases had $10-$20 worth of shipping tacked on.

So sorry there isn't a magic way to get a cheap RV. Even if you do get one it could become very expensive 3 weeks after you buy it.
 
Not so. One can pick up an H2AD cores for $2K. It just takes a different mount that Van's still sells (I believe.)

I'm pretty sure that the standard mount configuration was modified a few years back so that an "H" engine will fit (so no special order mount is required), but be sure to confirm before ordering.
 
Not so. One can pick up an H2AD cores for $2K. It just takes a different mount that Van's still sells (I believe.) I just overhauled one last week and I absolutely love those engines. There are several favorable attributes they have when compared to other Lycomings. For example, the tappet bodies and lifters can be easily be removed and replaced without having to split the case. Another example...the rocker pedestals are shimmed so differing lengths of pushrods are not necessary to get your dry tappet clearances in spec.

It sounds like you are an experienced engine builder. For those of us who can't overhaul our own engines we are at the mercy of others. I've heard enough horror stories of buying used cores and nearly all has to be replaced. That scared me enough to listen to Penn Yan when they said 'Just buy a new one". I wish I had the knowledge you do, but I don't so I ended up with a new engine.
 
If you have a pilots license and want fly an RV, purchasing a flying 6,7 or 9 providing you are patient to wait for the right one to come available, will most likely be the lowest cost entry method.

If you really want to build then a visit to your local EAA chapter and or finding a builders group might be a good first step. The engine and panel are the 2 areas where you can save some serious dollars if that is your primary goal. A fixed pitch prop on an 0-320 is the low cost way to see the USA. Just check with VLAD and his 9.
 
The H2AD..hidden gem

I built an O-320H2AD for the -4 I built. Got the core for near nothing, had the cylinders overhauled and all the big parts inspected/yellow tagged. New lifters, and I did a mild port job to smooth the flows out. It is a beast in my opinion. The mounts are the same dynafocal as the others, with a different crosstube at the top for case clearance. Van has one as an option. I have less than 30K( I have every reciept) into my plane, right down to the paint (I painted it). Its not perfect, but it does everything I need, and no shortcuts were taken. It takes doing it all yourself, knowing the options when shopping around and keeping it simple.
 
I found a great deal on my -7A kit that was basically in quick-build state and excellent quality. Still spent about 45-50k to finish it but I cut no corners and installed everything I wanted on the panel (excluding IFR capability, for now). If my budget had been tighter, I could have completed it for around 50k total.

I also found a good deal on an engine that was parted out from a 2002 Piper Archer with about 1100 hrs since MOH (zero time). Added all the goodies I wanted (see signature) and have a great flying plane. Could have saved 5-6k here by keeping the carburetor, original exhaust and a few other associated items.

It helped that I already had most of the tools required from my previous career as an A&P.
 
Cheap = Light

My RV8 is all stock with a new YO-360 from Vans for around $60K. The panel is dirt simple with minimum stuffs. One side benefit I did not anticipate is, when I built my RV cheap, it is painted and very light at 1007 lb.

My previous project RV7A started with an used QB kit with a runout O-360 engine and an used prop for a total of $35K including finishing kit and instruments and minimum avionics. I sold it when I was 90% done to start my RV8.
 
I wanted a RV that met my needs, and frankly buying a flying version wasnt in the cards, or the budget at the time. So, slow building, one kit at a time seemed the way to go.
All good intentions and progress was being made.
If you want to go the building route, remember--LIFE and responsibilities can get in the way. It virtually stopped my progress--my own fault, but responsibilities do take priority. I looked into some other options, but the reality is that they all lead to the same thing--time and money.

Tom
 
Bargain RV

I feel I have a good handle on this one thus far.
If you look and are patient buying an older flying RV will most likely cost less overall.
Having said that, a chunk of cash up front is harder for some people to do, myself included.

Some know here I bought a turn over RV-7, it was in worse shape than I had hoped but not worse than I expected. I was approached by a local gentleman with an SB fuse missing hardware and aft skins and a few other parts. Score! Built an emp from a partially started kit and found a better than core IO-360 in Canada. Have purchased some instruments and trim kit and EI kit already. Way more work, a lot less cash outlay up front.
Lots of hours in, but still ahead I think of a straight slow build.
A rough guess puts me at $18,300. Add a max $3-4K for simple EFIS and whatever engine part checking and recert., $3-8K? Assemble engine myself.
Should be good to go.

[edit: forgot to add engine core cost]
 
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I think the only really effective way to save money on an RV build is to be a knowledgable A&P to begin with. I had the same mindset. Started my project when I could have qualified for food stamps. Paid for it over the years as I could afford it. Looked for deals and bought a 1,500 hour O-320 core off a tornado wrecked Cherokee. Just had the annual done and good compressions, low oil consumption. Pulled a cylinder and saw some pitting starting on the cam....so it had to come apart. Had a local friend who owns an overhaul shop do the work with a friend discount. Ended up spending the same as I could have bought a crate O-320/360. Also, with the ADSB requirement coming up....an EFIS system is the most cost effective and gives you the best bang for your buck. I ended up with a 160 HP, wood prop driven, single screen Dynon Skyview equipped airplane. Took about 16 years and I probably spent what everybody else did. But it felt pretty great flying it for the first time two weeks ago! Honestly, not having cash readily available to progress through the build without waiting was a major hinderance. I think if you could find a full kit (emp, wings, fuse, finishing, maybe FWF even) that has been abandoned for a decent price, it would be a great way to get going. I hate to say it here...but a Sonex would be a more affordable side-by-side option.
 
cropdusterdave and kentlick both have great posts; so I thought I'd add my 2 cents... When you put together an airplane you will learn an incredible number of skills. In the beginning it's about getting an airplane together fast- we all start that foot race. A few are fast, but that is their thing. In the end you'll realize the journey was the most fun part of it all- you enjoy your hobby's result. Scrape together the money for each kit and save dollars by being careful on the accessories. Van's kits have an amazing dollars for quality. It's noteworthy how the money becomes available to buy the next kit because you've been saving money during the time your were building the last kit. So take your time, do a good job, and you'll have an airplane when it's all over. The hardest part of the journey is just starting! Best of luck! :)
 
Used QB

Started off with a used slow build -7. Decided it was going to take me forever, but still wanted to build, so looked for a used QB kit. It took a while, but found a QB kit that included the finish kit. It?s still going to take a while to complete, but I can see the end. Have already learned lots of great stuff from other builders and other build sites. So if you want to build, but want to fly (best of both worlds) and have the funds I feel the QB kits are the way to go. You can finish the airplane exactly how you want with a inexpensive engine and vfr instruments or go with a new engine and glass up front. Still lots of options as you build. I looked at several used engines and props. Ended up buying new to avoid the used market variables, but some $ could have been saved there if you have some power plant background. Avionics for me will be latest Dynon since it seems to change daily. That?s just my take. So many choices, so little time.
 
Adjust you suggestions?

Given this is copied from the Original Poster?s VAF profile, any adjustments in the advice?
????????
Biography:
Rock Climber and Mountain biker. 69 years old
Location (City, State):
Elk Grove
Interests:
see above
Occupation:
retired
Your name (First name Last Name):
John Robinson
RV of interest:
12
????????

Carl
..
 
Given this is copied from the Original Poster?s VAF profile, any adjustments in the advice?
????????
Biography:
Rock Climber and Mountain biker. 69 years old
Location (City, State):
Elk Grove
Interests:
see above
Occupation:
retired
Your name (First name Last Name):
John Robinson
RV of interest:
12
????????

Carl
..

If you are asking, because in his profile he says RV of interest is a 12...?

In his post he said "interested in building a side by side RV (that would be an RV-6,7,9 or 14 (not a 12)"

In that context I think everyone's advice has been spot on.
 
Build and Fly?

What if you want to build and fly? I hear a lot about if you want to build...build, but if you want to fly, then buy. What about those that want to build what they fly, is that an option too?
I ultimately want something that I can go cross country, but also cruises at a good clip. However I like to build and learn as well, is there a camp for me?
 
What if you want to build and fly? I hear a lot about if you want to build...build, but if you want to fly, then buy. What about those that want to build what they fly, is that an option too?
I ultimately want something that I can go cross country, but also cruises at a good clip. However I like to build and learn as well, is there a camp for me?

Of course - if you have the passion to build, then build! The thing folks have to watch out for is if they really just want to fly, and don?t have the deep desire to build - they need to buy.

I love to build, I love to fly.... so I do both!
 
What if you want to build and fly? I hear a lot about if you want to build...build, but if you want to fly, then buy. What about those that want to build what they fly, is that an option too?
I ultimately want something that I can go cross country, but also cruises at a good clip. However I like to build and learn as well, is there a camp for me?

Of course - if you have the passion to build, then build! The thing folks have to watch out for is if they really just want to fly, and don?t have the deep desire to build - they need to buy.

I love to build, I love to fly.... so I do both!

I built my RV-6 because I wanted to build and fly. After building, I wanted to fly more than I wanted to build. That is how I got over 3,000 hours on my RV-6 in less than 18-years. I wanted to build and fly so started an RV-8 while I continue to fly the RV-6.
 
Of course - if you have the passion to build, then build! The thing folks have to watch out for is if they really just want to fly, and don?t have the deep desire to build - they need to buy.

I love to build, I love to fly.... so I do both!

I agree with Paul.

Building an aircraft requires commitment. You must set a goal and constantly keep working towards it. I believe many people have the dream but do not have the commitment, hence the number of started kits regularly available. If you decide to build, try to make a commitment to do something, no matter how small, every day. As a first time builder you will spend a lot of time researching.

My original plan was to complete the plane in 5 years, which I thought was realistic based on my circumstances at the time. I did not want to go that long without flying regularly so I bought 50 hrs per yr block time on a local 172. The 172 was sold after a year. After a lot of looking I bought a completed RV4, flew it 2000 miles home, and learned to fly TW. Only had 30 hrs TW prior and I was building a 7 so it seemed like the thing to do. I adjusted my timeline to 6 years as I knew flying would compromise my original goal. I finished my 7, which I had bought about 30 percent done, after 6.5 yrs (2017), just missing my goal. I had the RV4 almost 4 yrs and sold it just before the 7 was complete for what I paid for it.

I believe that if you REALLY have the desire, you can find a way.

Al
 
Build & fly

I wanted to fly, not much $, bought a Cherokee 140/160 Thanksgiving 2015, love flying it. Then moved to my preferred airpark where I'm surrounded by builders. :) Started getting the itch & one of them unexpectedly found me a -9A QB kit for sale by the previous builder at about 1/2 the price. Lots of pictures, texts, phone calls later, I bought it. I was lucky; the kit's in good shape, few mods to what he had done. Took a couple of months to clean out the garage and get started, & will take longer than I'd like to build, but I LOVE working on it, almost as much as I love flying. Will probably sell my lovely Cherokee when it's time to put in the engine, & will buy a used one I can overhaul with the help of friends.

Bottom line, as others have said, if you want to fly now, buy a flying plane. If you want to build, keep your eyes open & do your homework. We don't all have to buy the latest & greatest toys right away.:D

Susan
Cherokee 140/160 driver
RV-9A builder
 
Wow - nice to know there are others of similar mind.

I knew I wanted to fly, so purchased a flying amateur-built airplane that was inexpensive to operate. But I also knew I wanted to build, so started a build project, the airplane of my dreams.

Many days I would be in the hangar, building, looking up at my friends out flying and thinking, "Man I wish I was up there with them." And then there were days when I would go to the hangar with the best intentions of building but just couldn't resist the urge to fly. Sometimes I'd fly, then come back to the hangar and build for a while.

Ultimately what worked for me was scratching BOTH the flying and building itches. If I have any regrets about this entire process it's that I didn't get off my keester and start doing both much earlier in life.
 
Wishing I could get started today, my wife and I just don't have the garage space right now and we both have a financial goal of owning our house in 4 years. Once that's done I'm hoping we can start getting after it.

I'm able to fly my dad's experimental right now, it doesn't go anywhere fast, but it allows me to fly.
 
If I have any regrets about this entire process it's that I didn't get off my keester and start doing both much earlier in life.

A very common regret......

I have been working in this business for 20+ years. I have spent many years behind a counter at OSH and other fly-ins, recognizing the same people year after year enter the booth with that wistful look, chat for a few minutes, and then leave with the statement "You guys sell fabulous airplanes, I wish I had the time to build one".

I do not mean that building is for everyone, but even if life makes it take 10 years or more, at the end you have an airplane that will last for generations.
When I built my first, I didn't have the cash to buy the kit and the tools, but I had the motivation. I did eventually get it finished, though to this day I am not entirely clear how I did it financially.
 
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