Quick build light survey

So I really enjoy the build process, until i screw something up, but hey its meant to be a learning process.

What I find kind of a drag is all the prep. So I am wondering if we had enough interest in the buyers for a quick build light kit. The concept is all the stuff gets sent to the quick build folks but all they do is prep work and Alodine work, so the kit is ready to be riveted out of the box.

I envision this would end up being a bit cheaper than the full quick build but maybe not, I don't know.

Immediately after finishing all my wing rib prep, I semi-jokingly suggested to Van's they offer something like a quickbuild light option that did exactly as your proposing. Having now experienced how miserable and monotonous that process was, I'd spend some extra $ for a more finished product in a heartbeat, but new builder might not appreciate how helpful such an option would be. I wouldn't worry though...In the course of that conversation, it was evident that Van's wasn't the least bit interested in such an idea.

I had the same conversation with Vans, but am hoping that if there was enough interest they would change their mind. My other option is I know some folks that knows the guy that owns the quick build operation in the PI. we might be able to set up something through them? I don't quite get it why Vans would resist another revenue stream?

Seems to me that a halfway step might be more feasible yet still providing most of the benefit...

At a recent show, I asked Mitch why Van's didn't dimple pieces when they were punched, with the holes being punched to final size and not needing de-burring. His reply was, basically, inventory management. If a given piece of sheet metal is used identically, left/right or top/bottom, only one part number is required if the piece is not dimpled. As soon as it is dimpled, then there are two part numbers required, more storage space required, chance of shipping error, etc.

Seems to me that there are several solutions:
* For pieces that have no pre-dimple ambiguity, such as vertical fin skins, bulkheads and other parts, dimple them at the factory. The only potential downside is that if the builder wants to spray primer on just the inside of the piece, it's hard to completely keep the primer from bleeding through the dimpled holes, even with tape over them. Dimpling these parts is so easy and (I would think) so inexpensive as to be worth doing now. It can also address the minor issue of rivet holes expanding when dimpled. (I don't know what issues there may be in dimpling plastic-coated aluminum, but I've got to think that's not a hard problem to solve, at least, not if somebody else is doing it.)
* For flat sheet pieces that are used in two ways, there may be two solutions: one is to have an after-market shop with the appropriate NC machinery receive parts from Van's and then custom dimple the pieces for the individual builder; and another is to let the builder order dimpled skins from a shop that has the NC code from Van's -- or maybe make the codes available so that local shops can do it. After all, there's not much intellectual property to be protected in a flat sheet of aluminum with holes in it. However, Van's has said that maintaining the quality of the aluminum is a constant struggle. And if a piece has to be bent and Van's is using an NC controlled sheet metal brake, probably makes sense to have the builder dimple the piece as is done now.

Then we get to anodize, alodyne, priming, etc. When I was building the RV-10 tailcone and had all the parts ready to rivet, I took all the pieces down to a shop and had them spray prime it all. (I had metal tags on parts that looked alike but had been fit into specific places). Took them about a morning to do it all. (It was sad to see the man spraying in full protective gear while his assistant, standing next to him and handling the parts, had none.) The advantage of this is that many builders can do this now if an appropriate shop is within driving distance.

Or there might be a business opportunity for somebody to take a Van's slow build kit, do the dimpling and priming, and then send it on to the ultimate customer. A caveat, of course -- there's folks in the amateur built community at both ends of the quality/craftsmanship/integrity scale.

I'm probably blowing smoke on some of this -- my background is in software, not hardware -- but there may be merit.

As much as I HATED the metal prep work (especially on them **** wing ribs) I also think it's kind of a right of passage when doing a standard build.

Not to mention I don't think I could support such a high risk of suicide job. Doing rib deburring all day for a living is my nightmare...

A so-called "light" kit might run afoul of the 51% rule.

flyinga said:

A so-called "light" kit might run afoul of the 51% rule.

Click to expand...

How could that be possible if full quickbuild kits still meet the 51% rule?

If you know of some enterprising young teenagers that you can trust with simple tasks, that might also be a solution. At least, that was my dad's approach

Before he'd leave on a trip for work, he'd offer us (usually me, but sometimes my brother too) $20-40 or so to do the scut work on his -6 while he was gone. Deburring edges and holes, dimpling, nutplates, squeezable rivets, sanding fiberglass parts, etc. This is one reason his build went much faster than mine is going, despite my kit being newer.




All that said, there's a lot of value in the steps before riveting--not so much the endless deburring, but in fitting parts and fabricating stuff from raw stock. A "ready to rivet" kit misses a lot of that, which if you're really going to claim to qualify for the repairman's certificate and truly maintain your airplane, you really ought to be able to do. Besides, it probably won't save you all that much money over a quickbuild--it's all that other stuff where most of the labor dollars are expended. Riveting is really quick by comparison. The additional overhead of a notional QB-lite kit would probably negate most of the savings and you'd wind up with a brown number cost of 90-95% of a "normal" quickbuild.

This also is why a kit where all the parts are ready to be assembled could run foul of 51%--significant credit towards that rule is gained from some of those fabrication and fitting tasks. Take enough of that out and even leaving all the riveting for the builder to do, you might not have enough. Remember, the 51% rule is heavily biased towards structure.