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Quadrant designed in?

TimO

Well Known Member
This question is primarily for rvbuilder2002, but anyone with info is welcome to answer with what they know.


On the RV10, the plans had a section for both push-pull and quadrant style controls.

When I took my demo flight at OSH, the guy I rode with said he didn't think Van's was planning a quadrant for the RV14.

There's no way that I'll be building mine WITHOUT a quadrant, so it would be nice to get a heads up on if there will or will not be a quadrant option in the plans, and in the finishing kit. If not, I'll try to leave any potentially interfering things out and start figuring out how to modify everything to accommodate.

BTW: The one for the RV10 works exceptionally well, and I love it. Most formation groups insist on no vernier types and quadrants are preferred for formation flying.
 
I will most likely have a quadrant in my -14A as well. It would be nice if the factory could/would develop this option for us. If such an factory option existed, I am sure most would opt for it.
 
This question is primarily for rvbuilder2002,

Hi Tim,
At this point in time, no development work has been done to accommodate a quadrant and I am not aware of any plans to do so.
Because the seating position in the 14 is quite a bit different from the 10 (in the 10 you are sitting higher off the floor... in the 14 your legs are extending more out in front of you), and the fact that the 10 has a wider cockpit, the use of a quadrant would directly compete with the design philosophy maximizing fit/comfort for larger people.
I think a quadrant would be fighting for the same space as some occupants inboard knees.
Not saying it can't be done, but before you go to all the effort I suggest you make a mock-up copy of the one in your RV-10 and see how it works as your fwd fuselage comes together (pay particular attention to where your knees have to be to get full stick deflection left and right).
If there was enough interest, it might be looked at. I suggest builders who are interested should send an email to [email protected]. Put "attention engineering / RV-14 throttle quadrant interest" (or something similar) in the subject line, and make your interest known.
 
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I will ask the newbie question:

what is quadrant control?

DSC01041.jpg
 
I sent Van's an e-mail as Scott suggested yesterday and received the following from Gus today.

Ron,

There's no list? But one of our design goals for the 14 is a throttle
quadrant option similar to the RV-10 - so that should be available
with the firewall forward kits when they are developed.

Vans
 
I sent Van's an e-mail as Scott suggested yesterday and received the following from Gus today.

Ron,

There's no list? But one of our design goals for the 14 is a throttle
quadrant option similar to the RV-10 - so that should be available
with the firewall forward kits when they are developed.

Vans

Well there you go, I wasn't aware that was planned for the future.
 
Quadrant Installed

For those interested, I found that the RV-10 quadrant has the same panel to subpanel distance as the RV-14, or at least close enough that it was an easy install. So I've obtained and installed the RV-10 throttle quadrant on the panel.

Past comments about the seating position being different and it perhaps not working well in the RV-14 are off base. It appears it'll be a very comfortable way to go, and it is in a great position. Of course, while I have my IO-390 waiting to be installed once the engine mount arrives, I don't have cable lengths at this time, so I'll need to get that later. I don't see that it's going to be any problem to use though. I've got some of the green lower-temp cables that I pulled out of my RV-10 that I can use for routing and measurements, and then I'll order some of the nice black higher-temp cables for the -14.


Pics:
RV1420150225-173840-043.jpg




RV1420150225-192210-046.jpg
 
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Throttle quadrant

Like the idea of options, but when I sat in the prototype at cooperstate the standard vernier felt very comfortable and in a good position.
 
Really like the quadrant. Looks good with the controls in a natural position. I read most of your log - Looking forward to seeing how it all comes out!
 
Like the idea of options, but when I sat in the prototype at cooperstate the standard vernier felt very comfortable and in a good position.

Everything depends on arm and leg length. When I sat in the 14 at S&F, the air vent was jabbing my left knee, and any throttle type hung in the usual place under the center panel would be unacceptable to my right knee. Just means my 14 would need a custom quadrant located above or below the knee, and a relocated air vent. These are items a builder can customize without much risk. Go go for it!

BTW, my next one will probably have a lever throttle, but vernier push-pull prop and mixture controls, which can be better for fine adjustment.
 
Quadrant and controls complete

As I've mentioned before, one of the things that I simply would not do without in my RV-14 is a quadrant type throttle. For the RV-10, Van's had the foresight to create both a quadrant and push-pull type controls, but to date they haven't released any quadrant info for the RV-14. With a little luck involved, the RV-10 quadrant worked out real well for me. Now that I've got my seats, I was able to test out the quadrant position and there is actually better knee clearance using the quadrant in the RV-14 than there is in the 10. It is very well positioned and has plenty of clearance from stick movement as well. I'm not sure why it is taking so long for them to get this designed in, as I'm sure it would be a very very popular option. At OSH last year we were talking quadrants and we polled a good sized group of people around our campsite. Every one of them but one was using the quadrant throttle. It's something that you really want for formation flying, and I think many people would prefer it once you try it. I started out with push-pulls in Cessnas, but as I moved into beeches and pipers, they all had quadrants and I preferred them greatly.

I did complete my install, along with all of the push-pull cables from the same source as I used when I replaced mine on the RV-10. I should note that if you have Green covered push-pull cables, there is a better, higher temp jacket version of the cable available, so when you get cables I recommend going that route. On my RV-10, the green cable sleeve started to melt off and later I heat shielded it and it didn't continue. The black colored cables should hold up better. That said, I'm now a proponent of heat shielding all cables where they run near exhaust.

Here are my cables:

RV14160420-161751-065.jpg



For the quadrant itself, you would want the RV-10 throttle quadrant. I'm sure you can get it from Van's. What I'm not sure of, is if you can get it without the cables. I'd recommend getting it without, and getting the black cables anyway, if possible. I happened to get mine from another builder who didn't use it, and got it without cables. The quadrant is a very smooth running quadrant and I can get my RPM to the exact RPM that I want when I use it, with 10RPM resolution on my tach. You will want 2 or better yet, 2.125" throw cables, by the way. (Make sure to specify that as a MINIMUM throw)
The part numbers I used are:

176-VTT-2-59.6 (Mixture)
176-VTT-2.25-48.9 (Throttle)
176-VTT-2-54.5 (prop)

The number after VTT is the throw. The final number is the length. My throttle and mixture cables are routed just like the plans show. My prop cable I wanted to reduce the number of sharp bends a bit and since it was easy, I did. I installed a firewall eyeball passthrough on the upper firewall and routed it out there instead of the firewall passthrough where the wires go through by the starter/master contactor. This gives a much smoother cable run. I wish there were an easy way to also improve the mixture cable routing but it wasn't as easy to find a good way for that one.

If you decide to copy my cables, keep in mind that the lengths are dependent on doing the same routing, so you may want to do your own measurement on the prop cable. I used my old, melted cover RV-10 cables as mock-up cables. If you do a quadrant, I may be able to send you one to play with...you just cover the shipping there, and either back or to the next guy that asks me for it.

Here are the pics of the quadrant itself, with the controls at full forward throw and full aft throw.

RV14160430-143100-039.jpg


RV14160430-143103-040.jpg


RV14160430-143120-041.jpg


RV14160430-143127-042.jpg



Now a note on cable and control throw...

My IO-390 as it arrived, required 2.25" of control throw. You want to make sure you get not only full travel but a cushion at each end, per plans, so you can ensure full control of the device. 2.25" of required throw was not possible, as the quadrant is really built to deliver 2", or a max of about 2.125" of throw, stop to stop. The same thing has been an issue for builders for many years, including on my RV-10. On my -10, I drilled the arm (you'll see more forum threads regarding all of this), and with a hole drilled just above the stock arm hole, you end up getting perfect control throw. My controls then moved stop to stop with just a tiny cushion on both ends. But, I didn't stop there. If you notice the plans have you install the throttle control rod end with an offset spacer. This isn't ideal either, as you're not pulling directly on the arm but on a bolt that has a little lever moment to it. It's not a real problem, once you've drilled the arm it'll work fine, but, you can improve it a little bit and guarantee full throttle throw, by just replacing the arm. There is a part number AV2522004 that is the replacement arm, that is a straight arm. Then you can get rid of the spacer and mounting it all is cleaner.


Here are some pics for what I'm talking about.

RV14160421-072737-083.jpg


RV14160421-164422-085.jpg


RV14160430-143145-043.jpg


RV14160430-143153-044.jpg



Similarly, there is an improvement you can do with the hartzell governor.
I personally think the stock S-1-79 prop governor arm we get is way too short a throw. When connected to the quadrant I only got 1/2 travel with the stock arm. I called Hartzell and they have the perfect solution...
There is a universal arm, p/n 103568 that they offer. It's got 3 holes drilled in it. So you can mount it with whatever throw you require.
This allows you not only to make it work perfectly with the quadrant, but even improve the connecting of the rod end a lot on the governor.
Notice that on the per-plans install, the rod end is installed on the outside of the arm. This is a must, because the rod end will jam up with the spring block if you mount it on the inside. So they "fixed" it by moving the rod end to the outside of the arm. But, this now means your cable doesn't pull straight back. These control cables wear and work best when they pull straight, not at an angle. By having a longer arm, the rod end can now be safely mounted on the inside of the arm, and it doesn't jam up, and pulls straight. So for only $30, it's a nice improvement.

All of the clevis's and everything are readily available to connect the cables on the quadrant end. I ended up purchasing all my own rod ends for the engine side of the cables (van's has nice kits made for attaching these cables for varous RV's), so after getting my RV-14 FWF parts, I ended up with a bunch of left over brand new rod ends. I over-ordered on parts. But the end result is well worth it. My controls now have great travel, the quadrant is very comfortable and nice, and the plane is the way I wanted it.
Hopefully Van's will make it easier on you all and just get this all figured out for you and release a kit. It literally would only take them an hour to measure it all up...and add on maybe 1/2 hour to cleco in the quadrant to test it out. Then they could just draw up the plans and start selling a quadrant kit. It's not a very complicated upgrade.
 
Thanks for all the information Tim. I've jumped in and ordered one from Vans while there is still some left.!
 
Salto, did they have it available without any cables? Just curious. Would be nice if you could just buy the quadrant.
Tim
 
Is there a reason to think the quadrant will not be available later? I am just working on the empennage, but would also prefer a quadrant.
 
After Tim did all that great pioneering work I reckon there would be a rush for existing stock. Pretty sure the supplier will get out of bed earlier to make sure there is plenty of stock.
The quadrant without the cables part number is:
CT 10-3 $352.50 had to order direct and not through the online section.
 
I had a whole reply typed up but somehow I must have hit the wrong button and it got lost. Here goes again...


The whole quadrant thing is pretty easy to install. The only caution I'd make sure you understand is that my prop governor cable isn't routed per plans. So don't copy my cable lengths unless you are going to drill the same hole and use an eyeball in the firewall in the same spot as I did. If I were doing it again I'd move it up 1/2", but that would mean a longer cable. If you have an extra inch of cable, that's a LOT...these things are very stiff. So you want to get the measurement pretty darn close. I think before I offered to send one of my cables to you if you want to use it to measure for your own cable lengths. Just send it back or to the next guy who needs it when you're done. Once a couple other people install it, I'll feel more comfortable that it'll all work well for you. If someone routes the Prop cable per-plans with a quadrant, post what cable length you used so that others can know that too.

Also, if you plan to go with a quadrant, there's really no need to get it before your FWF kit. I would order it when you order FWF components. Install it before you put the upper forward skin on. The only other thing that could get you stuck is that center pedestal to the subpanel. Check out this photo:

RV1420150603-214020-030.jpg


You'll notice that the center of that pedestal is all cut away. That's to give clearance for the quadrant and cables to route out. If you KNOW you'll do a quadrant you can cut that ahead of time. Otherwise, maybe just don't rivet it in until you fit the quadrant. There's no reason you can't rivet it in later...especially if you use pop rivets or screws. That way you can sort of do this whole install at once.

With the FWF kit, you should get most or all of the rod ends you need, so you just need to exclude the push-pull cables, buy those yourself, and get a quadrant and clevis' and clevis pins. Buy yourself 100 quantity of cotter pins and light washers in all sizes from spruce because you can always use more cotter pins and washers. Then you'll have everything you need to do the install (other than the eyeball passthrough if you do that too). I really like how the eyeball passes through the cable.

So good luck, and if someone else does install one, post back how it goes. When you're all done I'm betting you love it.

One other small tip:
When you buy the quadrant, it tends to make an aluminum sliding noise when you move the levers. On both planes, I cut small pieces of UHMW tape and stuck them to the levers, right where it rubs the slot. This cuts out any scraping noise. It's a real smooth quadrant.
 
Beginner question - can you get the preciseness of settings with the quadrant versus the vernier push/pull controls?
 
Some people believe you can get more.... some people believe you get less.

One thing for sure is it is not needed (particularly for formation... proof comes from the fact that probably 99% of the side by side RV's used for formation have a standard push/pull control) but is an option depending on preference.
 
Tim , I hope your getting a commission as the Hartzell universal arms are now on back order, (app. four weeks out).
 
Sorry about the Hartzell Arms, Ron. I only ordered 1. ;)

Regarding the precision, I have no problem getting to within the 10RPM resolution that my EIS displays. I fly my RV-10 most often at 2360rpm. Not 2350, not 2370. It's easy to pinpoint the RPM. The mixture is the same way. It's very easy to put it exactly where you want it. One very nice feature is, you have a built-in hand wrest. So when you're adjusting, you brace your hand on the quadrant and then just squeeze the appropriate fingers slightly and you can put it just where you want it.
There is a tension adjustment on the side. I don't use it much. I keep it just tight enough to keep things from moving on their own.

Tim
 
I'm curious as to why formation groups want a quadrant?

I've got a reasonable amount of formation experience. Most of it in Cessnas with vernier controls. Some in Pipers with quadrants.

I would much prefer a vernier control in formation flying than a quadrant. I feel I have much better control on the throttle in a vernier set-up than a quadrant.

Thanks
 
I'm only getting it coz it looks cool. As far as preferred option I have none... you just use whatever is in the aircraft.
 
Regarding the formation comment, I haven't gone to get my card, so I can't tell you for sure. It's just something I've been told many times by people who have been to the classes. I don't know that it's accurate in all cases or even most. But even last year at OSH while talking to a fellow RV-10/RV-8 builder who attends training often, he said it again. So it may be dependent on what group you go with. I do know that they want controls that you can instantly (and constantly) move.
 
Like Tim I started out in Cessnas and never really liked the push-pull knobs although they worked fine. Switched to Pipers, loved the quadrant, and liked it even better in my RV-8A. I prefer the ergonomics, but I admit it also just feels more like I'm flying a high performance aircraft...F-16's don't have push-pull knobs, they have a manly lever :D There's lots of talk about making fine adjustments with the vernier knob controls, but I never had any trouble making fine adjustments to throttle, prop, or mixture. The one complaint I did have was that there's only one friction adjustment for all three levers on the RV-8 quadrant. This is ok 99% of the time, but I found that when flying as wingman in a formation I preferred to reduce the friction on the throttle since I'd be making lots of power changes to hold position, and if I reduced the friction adjustment too much the prop lever would gradually creep forward due to the spring on the governor pulling it to high RPM. Not a big issue but not ideal either.

So, what to do? A while back I contacted Dayton from DJM Manufacturing (he builds the quadrants sold through Vans) and asked if he could make me a quadrant for the RV-14 that has a friction adjustment on both sides. One on the left for the throttle, and the one on the right for the prop & mixture. He said he'd be happy to do that and to contact him when I get ready to order. He also said he would consider running a wire up through the throttle lever to a push button switch that can be used for the TOGA (TakeOff/GoAround) function on the G3X autopilot. You can punch the button when you get to minimums on an instrument approach and the G3X autopilot will fly a fully coupled go around. This button can be located elsewhere but it's traditionally on the throttle for good reason...easy to press as you feed in the power for the go around.
 
Mark, that is really great that he is willing to do more to improve the quadrant and get one working for your (and other) RV-14's. I haven't had much issue with levers moving the way I keep the friction set, but I can see your point and how ideally you could have 2 friction settings, so if he's willing, go for it. I think either way you'll be happy in the end. My avionics don't have the TOGA function that is remote-able so that won't work for me, but it's not a bad idea.

One suggestion I do have for people though...

When locating my switches, there is one thing I did with both airplanes I built, that I think is very handy.

I have the boost pump switch located perfectly so that if my hand is on the throttle and I'm full throttle, I can flick my thumb and turn on the boost. If you're going to need boost, it's likely going to be during a high power move. So having that there gives you immediate access. My flap switch is located just left of that, so it's not much of a movement to drop the flaps, either.
And in my case, I have the safety trim installed, which has an associated switch...that is located above but near the quadrant. Those are all things that you may want convenient access to. Just a thought for those who are planning a panel layout.
 
After "freight dogging" for years in general aviation aircraft, I much prefer the push pull controls for this reason: Most of the aircraft that I flown with quadrants (twins BE 58, PA31, etc..) have issues with the friction lock. When trying to adjust 6 levers independently you almost ALWAYS had to hold the adjacent lever still with your free hand and adjust the desired lever with the other hand. If not, the adjacent lever that was not the desired lever to be adjusted would always incrementally move in the same direction of the one being adjusted. Loosening the friction lock would only exacerbate the problem.

This may only have been because they were old AC with 10,000 -20,000 hours on the airframe and had the typical 135 Cargo company MX done. The DHC-2 amphib was the only pleasant experience with a quadrant. Maybe it was because it was a single and didn't have as many levers, maybe it was because it newer, who knows, just my .02.
 
Prop governor cable passthrough location?

The only caution I'd make sure you understand is that my prop governor cable isn't routed per plans. So don't copy my cable lengths unless you are going to drill the same hole and use an eyeball in the firewall in the same spot as I did. If I were doing it again I'd move it up 1/2", but that would mean a longer cable. If you have an extra inch of cable, that's a LOT...these things are very stiff. So you want to get the measurement pretty darn close.

Tim, do you mind sharing the measurements and/or picture of your governor cable firewall passthrough location so we don't have to figure it out all over again?

Thanks,
 
When trying to adjust 6 levers independently you almost ALWAYS had to hold the adjacent lever still with your free hand and adjust the desired lever with the other hand. If not, the adjacent lever that was not the desired lever to be adjusted would always incrementally move in the same direction of the one being adjusted.

The DJM quadrants have metal tabs between the levers at the pivot point that would prevent rotational force from being transferred between the arms. The friction lock just squeezes these plates against the arm, making it harder to move.

You can see the bronze colored plates here:
PC170264.JPG


So the scenario that you mentioned shouldn't happen in our planes (with DJM quadrants).
 
Mark,
As requested:
My eyeball that I used for the prop governor cable is located like this:

The CENTER of the eyeball when punching the hole in the firewall is located 2.5" up from the bottom of the top section firewall panel....so it's on the upper.

The LEFT edge of the square eyeball bracket is about 1/8" to the RIGHT from the stiffening bump (I'm not sure what you call that thing that's pounded into the firewall...but it strengthens it) in the upper firewall. It's to the LEFT of the fuel/oil pressure manifold that gets mounted to the firewall. (I'm telling you that because there are multiple stiffening bumps) As a second reference point it's roughly 13.75" from the left upper engine mount bolt. That will get you pretty close to the location that I used. If I did it again I'd move it up maybe .25 to .5" but then you'd have to get a longer cable as well. That said, it will work fine as is...but you'll want to put a rubber cushion on the engine mount so they can't touch.

Tim
 
Quadrant issue

Just received my quadrant to see how I would like it and here is my observation:

When I tested it I was sitting on my Oregon Aero seat cushions to get a realistic feel. It looks really cool in the airplane however, it hits my right knee when I sit and spread my legs as I normally would on a x-country flight. Another issue for me was that it somewhat hides the real estate of the center console north of the fuel valve. This is where I intend to place my small Ipad. So after all this, I am staying with the push-pull setup.
 
Why not design the mount and install a DJM quadrant, if that is what you want?

I have over 700 hours on the DJM quadrant in my -9 and wouldn't want Cessna style engine and prop controls in my RV.
 
Our throttle quadrant installed in our RV-14 and looking good

Hi All
I am a low hours pilot so take the following as you like, I fly both Cessna’s 152/172's and also a PA-28 and I prefer using the throttle quadrant over the push pull controls. I have used both types of controls in formation and found the quadrand was great.

It would be nice if Vans started to supply a quadrant upgrade kit for builders who want one, I think the interest is there.
So we went ahead and also installed the RV-10 Quadrant in our RV-14A. Our install was the same as Tim's, and the information Tim on Tims blog has helped us a lot so if anyone is not sure - read his blog and go for it.

The quadrant was very easy to fit on our RV-14, with the only variation to Tims is that we dropped ours by 50mm (see picture). We dropped its mount to help keep our hands away from the trim and flap controls yet to be mounted in the centre console (they will get mounted below the shown autopilot in the picture). We also felt lowering our quadrant made it more comfortable to use.
And note we can still easily view and use the standard RV-14 fuel petcock below the quadrant.

IMG_6230.JPG


We have not yet enclosed our quadrant, but we plan on enclosing the sides once we finish the cabling.
 
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Very nice, glad it's working out for you. You won't regret having a quadrant. It's very nice, and it's been working perfectly for me. It's every bit as comfortable as the one in the RV-10 and although you found you liked yours 1" lower, I find the position is perfect for myself and my 15 year old daughter both. I verified the positioning with her when we took these photos and she says it's great there.

I did add some side covers for it late in the summer, but just realized I never posted any, so I took some yesterday before our flight. I covered the sides in vinyl and foam backing with a hard back plate, so they are nice and padded and you can rest against it now comfortably. It was simple to do. I also added USB charging jacks on the side, for ipads and such.

I have some additional pics now on my website too, including some of the nice A-700 heater vent control cables. I'm VERY glad I did that. They've been working out excellently this winter!

Also you may notice in the pics I added headset hangers a week ago. They are glued on, so nothing riveted permanently.

Here are some pics of the quadrant covers:

RV1420170209-154527-036m.jpg


RV1420170209-154533-037m.jpg
 
I like mine left open as I stick my fingers /thumb in the side to stabilize my hand in turbulence to make small position changes.
 
I like mine left open as I stick my fingers /thumb in the side to stabilize my hand in turbulence to make small position changes.

While not a -14, I did install one in my -9 10 years ago and left it open for the reason described above and wouldn't change a thing.
 
Oh man, it's been a while so I'll have to just take a guess since I can't remember for sure. I know you'll want tip to tip distance for the threaded tips of the cable (the 10-32 threaded ends). Then you'll also want the throw as well. I'm hoping I wrote enough on my site when I did it that you can decipher it for your version. Either way, I'd call the company and see if they can give you the guidance. For me it was a little easy because I had an old cable on hand that melted on my RV-10 install, and was able to mock it up with that and measure off of it. If you have a cable or know of someone you can borrow one from, it would make it a pretty easy job. But, call them. See what they say.
 
I bought an RV-10 quadrant with cables from a builder who decided not to use it, and used two of the cables that came with it on my RV-14A installation. I have the FM-150 fuel injection, so had to use the special bracket required for that installation, which routes the cables below the engine. I believe Tim used the "standard" Bendix fuel injection and the normal cable routing. Make sure you choose cable lengths accordingly. I used the shorter cable (49.5 inches) for the mixture and the intermediate length one (52.5 inches) for the throttle. The prop cable was much too long, because we only have four cylinders vs. six in the 10. I still need to determine the right length for the prop cable, but I plan to route a piece of tubing to both ends to get a good estimate. The cables are pretty flexible and have a minimum bend radius of about 4 inches, as I recall, so it doesn't appear a precise length is that critical. YMMV
 
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I was talking to Dayton, of DJM Manufacturing, today and mentioned that one of the my favorite mods to my -9 was the inclusion of one of his throttle quadrants. (While my quadrant doesn't have a prop lever, it can be converted to one by replacing the top plate and adding the additional lever.)

He mentioned that the RV-14 and RV-10 were identical from the instrument panel forward and that the standard RV-10 quadrant kit should fit without modification.

Maybe Scott can chime in here.
 
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I too have one of Dayton?s quadrants in my RV7A and wouldn?t have it any other way. I?ve added brackets to each side for all the other pushpull cables (cabin heat, alternate air, purge valve, parking brake) for a total of 7 control cables. All this takes up about the same amount of panel space as two traditional push-pull throttle and mixture knobs.

Bevan
 
I+'m I think up to about 260 hours on the -14 now and the quadrant has been fantastic. I got a compliment recently from the DPE who did my daughters checkride that he really loved it and liked the padding I put on the side too. It was Doug Rozendaal, for those who may know him. Anyway, I agree, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's been fantastic. Regarding the mounting, the person who said they mounted it 1/2" forward I think didn't do such a bad thing either. You could mount it without modification other than the vertical panel support being cut up a little, or you could mount it 1/2" forward and that could be very nice too if you add your own mounting tabs. Just be sure you are comfortable with the clearance your hand has to any switches on your panel that you may have forward of it. I used a lever lock switch on one switch there so I wouldn't accidentally turn it off.

Anyway, loving the quadrant, and just still think it would be nice if Van's would just take a little time to publish the plans to show that as an option like they did on the RV-10. They could also help by listing the quadrant separately from cables in the online store.
 
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