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Best bang for the buck

rocketbob

rocketbob

Well Known Member
Doing some EFIS system shopping for a friend. Basically looking for a simple, easy to read system with engine monitoring and 2 axis autopilot.

The GRT Sport SX system seems to be a good system for the money.

Any opinion on how Dynon compares for a 8.4" system?

The G3X is a bit out of his price range.
 
MGL

I would highly recommend the MGL IEFIS. Great system easy to install, nice price
 
G3x. At least when I was shopping. 2 screen g3x vs 2 screen dynon the g3x was a little cheaper. I just added a third screen (used) for $1000. If he does not need ifr gps integration he might try pricing just the adhr/ems parts of a g3x and find someone selling a new or almost new non-touch screen as there are a lot of builders stepping up to the touch that are selling their non-touch screens
 
Testimonial for GRT Sport

I'm flying behind dual GRT Sport displays and am totally delighted with them. For my VFR flying and cross countrys, the Sport system does everything I want it to. Their price point and factory support are hard to beat.
 
Bang for the buck

I'm doing a Single Screen GDU370 , GTR 200 comm , gtx327 transponder .
Simple and easy to upgrade .
 
As a manufacturer I'll try to tread lightly-

You need to define what you need first. Remember that Dynon has two product lines.

The initial question makes it sound like a D180 is what Dynon sells that fits the need. It's a PFD, EMS, and AP all in one. Out the door with a 2 axis AP, and all your wires, sensors and mounting brackets that would be about $5,800 MSRP with a 7" screen.

If you are looking for SynVis, moving map, transponder integration, and more, then that's SkyView, with 7" and 10" screen options, touch or non-touch. The price is higher, but so are the features, and sometimes the total price is lower if you integrate things like the GPS, COM radio and transponder which you would have bought somewhere else anyway.
 
Bang for buck

Garmin GDU370 complete for a fuel injected 4 cylinder all probes , sensors , gps antenna ,connectors , shipped aprox $5000 , add two servos $1500 .

Can send you a copy of my invoice if it helps .
 
Snce you asked, List price off the GRT web site for an SX with vertical autopilot software, two servos, engine monitor including fuel flow, $6200.

As you see it is a very competitive market. Your friend needs to figure out what he likes, personally. Everyone likes what they bought.
 
Bang for buck

I compared the AP servos , ( I have flown the Dynon not the Garmin)
The Garmin Servos have some nice features.
 
Not sure if it matters to the user but I would prefer trading my 370 for a 375 Garmin unit and having the XM weather. It seems important in an RV more than a slower plane.
 
Gdl39

AndyRV7 said:
Not sure if it matters to the user but I would prefer trading my 370 for a 375 Garmin unit and having the XM weather. It seems important in an RV more than a slower plane.
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I personally would add the gdl-39 ads-b receiver for $600 instead of xm. Weather and traffic work great with it and no fees.

Also I again say if looking to save even more you can probably save another $1000-$1500 buy purchasing a "like new" 370 screen from someone trading up to a touch
 
[email protected] said:
I personally would add the gdl-39 ads-b receiver for $600 instead of xm. Weather and traffic work great with it and no fees.

Also I again say if looking to save even more you can probably save another $1000-$1500 buy purchasing a "like new" 370 screen from someone trading up to a touch
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It seems like everything I've read in various threads says that ADS B is just not up to snuff yet. I don't have any practical experience but I have gotten a good look at XM. It seemed pretty good! Again, I'm no expert by far but can you get TFRs from ADS B? That was another reason I thought I would like to have XM. All guesses though.
 
AndyRV7 said:
It seems like everything I've read in various threads says that ADS B is just not up to snuff yet. I don't have any practical experience but I have gotten a good look at XM. It seemed pretty good! Again, I'm no expert by far but can you get TFRs from ADS B? That was another reason I thought I would like to have XM. All guesses though.
Click to expand...

FIS-B weather from the ADS-B system works great from pattern altitude and up in most places. It does include TFR info as well.

Ground functionality of XM can be replaced for free on most smart phones and tablets.
 
Brantel said:
FIS-B weather from the ADS-B system works great from pattern altitude and up in most places. It does include TFR info as well.

Ground functionality of XM can be replaced for free on most smart phones and tablets.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. At least on the east coast (have not been out west yet in the RV-10), Weather, winds, TAF, TFR have worked great by pattern altitude. I think traffic is the spotty part.
 
Budget shopping. ..

I would go with a used Dynon D180 coupled to a handheld GPS of some type. Then shop around for an Icom radio and Garmin mode S transponder.

That will get your friend flying and he can upgrade later, if he wants.
 
If you're really on a budget for a standalone Mode S transponder, the Trig transponder is $1,000 less than the Garmin. Both are fully certified Mode S with ES and ADS-B out transponders.
 
I think the D180 is a good choice but my experience with it has been that the screen brightness in sunlight is not as good as some of the newer systems.
 
G3X System Pricing

Bob,

The single display standard G3X system (non-touch) with EIS has a MAP price of $4375 + probes. Our 4 cylinder Lycoming sensor kit price is $999 and includes the following:

  • 4 CHT/EGT probes
  • Fuel flow transducer
  • Oil temperature
  • Oil pressure
  • Manifold pressure
  • Ammeter shunt
As previously pointed out in this thread, our autopilot servos are $750 each. So I?d estimate you?re around $6900 based on the information provided.

Pricing for all of the major system components is shown on our G3X website. The G3X manuals are also good resources for additional information. If he is unable to find any of the information needed, please ask him to shoot us an email at [email protected] and we?ll get him squared away.

Also, for those not already aware, we added the 7? G3X Touch display to our existing touchscreen lineup at Oshkosh with a starting MAP of $4599 for a single display system. The 10.6" display touchscreen system is currently available and the 7" display will be shipping later this year. Read more about the new 7" display and other exciting recent announcements such as Garmin Connext capability here.

Thanks,
Brian
 
Don't forget to consider the "continuing costs" associated with updating your devices. I am very happy with the Dynon Skyview suite in my RV-12. Regular updates to the software and data files come FREE from Dynon and the sectionals / approach plates / IFR charts are a reasonable $100 / year from Seattle Avionics. It appears that Dynon is very good with customer service as well (my Skyview has worked without issue since installed so I have had no need to talk with customer service :)).
 
Continuing costs for the core EFIs systems are pretty much a moot point anymore as everyone (GRT/AFS/Dynon/Garmin/MGL - and previously BMA, OP and Chelton) all have provided their software updates for free from day one for decades (even the guys with the high buck certified systems get their software free for the most part), and all of them have fairly close subscription costs and overall plans for various charts/map updates when you take all things into account.

You still see this tossed around as marketing rhetoric, but in the end when you get to the brass tacks they are all pretty equal when you look at the bottom line numbers. For items outside of the main EFIS systems that's likely a wash too, because you'd likely have the same devices no matter which core EFIS system you're running.

As I've said many times, these sorts of discussions always sort of lean to "my child is the prettiest" at some point (nobody wants to be jealous of someone else's)...if there were one system perfect for everyone at all times, we'd only offer than one system...but luckily some of us need pickup trucks, some of need 4WD and seat heaters, some of us like taildraggers while some like nosewheels, some like red cars and some like blue cars! :)

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
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SteinAir said:
some like red cars and some like blue cars! :)

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
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I agree - but it never ceases to amaze me that so many people make multi-thousand $$ decisions for airplanes based on their perception that X is prettier than Y!
 
BobTurner said:
I agree - but it never ceases to amaze me that so many people make multi-thousand $$ decisions for airplanes based on their perception that X is prettier than Y!
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True for sure. That goes along with people making decisions based on advertising, or pictures, or whatever. What I find every single year at OSH, is peoples minds often (VERY often) change when they actually get to see and touch one of these systems in person...this happens with most all brands - the instant someone gets to stand and play with the systems what they 'thought' they knew or perceived will many times change. Also when they actually get educated on the real world numbers (not sales pitches that get thrown around and oft repeated), many times folks get surprised (or sometimes they think I'm just wrong...but we know that would never be the case, right)!?! :)

Back to the subject of the thread at hand, "bang for the buck" isn't an absolute, because the measuring stick for the "bang" portion (and even the buck portion) is quite often different amongst different folks. It's what makes this such a fun and sometimes challenging process for everyone.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Post 22, above implies that the ongoing costs for all the efis systems are essentially the same. This is may be true for the "core" firmware updates. However, it really isn't true of the maps and charts updates, is it? They do vary and that is what I would call "continuing costs". All I know is that I cringe every time I have to update my lowly Garmin 296. $50 per single update, or $300 for the year for data that is essentially reformatted taxpayer data.
 
flyingriki said:
Dynon customer service is fabulous!
Click to expand...

I can?t help to express only my disappointment in regards to their lack of info or progress in their issues with their heated pitot. It has been months after they finally agreed there is an issue with it and yet to hear any info about the fix.
 
SteinAir said:
True for sure. That goes along with people making decisions based on advertising, or pictures, or whatever. What I find every single year at OSH, is peoples minds often (VERY often) change when they actually get to see and touch one of these systems in person...this happens with most all brands - the instant someone gets to stand and play with the systems what they 'thought' they knew or perceived will many times change. Also when they actually get educated on the real world numbers (not sales pitches that get thrown around and oft repeated), many times folks get surprised (or sometimes they think I'm just wrong...but we know that would never be the case, right)!?! :)

Back to the subject of the thread at hand, "bang for the buck" isn't an absolute, because the measuring stick for the "bang" portion (and even the buck portion) is quite often different amongst different folks. It's what makes this such a fun and sometimes challenging process for everyone.

Cheers,
Stein
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Guilty as charged here. The one system I was not even considering (due to scary thing$ I read in here) turned out to be the least expensive once Stein educated me past my bias. Spend some time talking to Stein about what your needs are, and let him punch you up some real world number comparisons. You may be as surprised as I was to find how many untruths are told and repeated in here.
 
Bavafa said:
I can?t help to express only my disappointment in regards to their lack of info or progress in their issues with their heated pitot. It has been months after they finally agreed there is an issue with it and yet to hear any info about the fix.
Click to expand...

We've been a bit quiet while we've been working on the redesign and testing of the replacement heated pitot, but I did want to reiterate that it's one of the highest priority projects here. We're in the home stretch of our testing now, and you'll be seeing some more official updates from us very shortly when everything keeps going to plan. We're a bit hesitant to name a date just yet, but we're almost there.
 
Radioflyer said:
Post 22, above implies that the ongoing costs for all the efis systems are essentially the same. This is may be true for the "core" firmware updates. However, it really isn't true of the maps and charts updates, is it? They do vary and that is what I would call "continuing costs". All I know is that I cringe every time I have to update my lowly Garmin 296. $50 per single update, or $300 for the year for data that is essentially reformatted taxpayer data.
Click to expand...

It is...we aren't talking about portable or certified devices here. $49/year for basic data from one company, while other companies are "free" (but you need to pay a $500 unlock fee to use the 'free' data - it's all in how it's marketed), so in 10 years it's a wash. Still others might just charge more for the EFIS upfront. Believe me, one way or another you end up basically paying the same thing (even for free data).

For more advanced features (charts/plates/etc..), pretty much all the companies charge an additional $99/year, whether it be from Seattle Avionics or from Garmin for the G3X. Again, apples to apples it's pretty much a wash. . When you get an EFIS, get rid of the portables and get yourself an tablet (running any of the popular apps). Full updates for everything you can imagine for about $75 per year. Some of these same tablet products will even talk to your EFISes wirelessly and share some of that said data back and forth!

Regarding Dynon's pitot tube, I have no problem with the time it's taken and don't have any doubt they will still have an excellent solution.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
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okay, I'm confused. What 'basic data' does $49 or an unlock fee get you? And I've never heard of an unlock fee, who charges that?
I have GRT glass and I've never paid anything for basic map data. I follow Stein's advice and use an iPad for charts, but I do have some local approach plates on a memory stick which I can display on the HX - again, for free.
 
BobTurner said:
okay, I'm confused. What 'basic data' does $49 or an unlock fee get you? And I've never heard of an unlock fee, who charges that?
I have GRT glass and I've never paid anything for basic map data. I follow Stein's advice and use an iPad for charts, but I do have some local approach plates on a memory stick which I can display on the HX - again, for free.
Click to expand...

This is why I say repeatedly that apples/apples comparisons are so hard to do. Your free GRT charts are typically pdf's which you must download and carry around on a thumbdrive (which is perfectly fine and works well); but they are not georeferenced - however - you can get georeferenced charts on your GRT from Seattle avionics for a subscription fee (as with other EFIS mfgr's).

The Map unlocks have become common (you need it to unlock and use a map or nav display) on some EFISes, some charge more for the EFIS upfront. Still more confusing is the fact that not all data (or display/content/detail of that data) is the same across various units.

In the end I'm of the opinion that this subject on it's own is no longer an important singular metric for choosing an EFIS - everyone left in the market makes a good product..and again, not one solution is perfect for all folks in all situations. There are many things that should go into research one does and ultimately their selection.

I'm afeared this thread is drifting back into the neverending primer war debate of who's child is prettier, so methinks we better try to get back on topic or move this discussion into one of it's own! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
dynonsupport said:
We've been a bit quiet while we've been working on the redesign and testing of the replacement heated pitot, but I did want to reiterate that it's one of the highest priority projects here. We're in the home stretch of our testing now, and you'll be seeing some more official updates from us very shortly when everything keeps going to plan. We're a bit hesitant to name a date just yet, but we're almost there.
Click to expand...

That would make me very happy as I have been waiting anxiously
 
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