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New (October 2013) LED wingtip landings light discovered

LED lighting

Mehrdad,
While searching on YouTube I found a video on how to remove the SOS or other modes on these ultra fire lights. Not sure if it would apply to the exact light you are using but may be worth looking at if you would like to eliminate the SOS feature.

Don

http://youtu.be/4JOF8TCTPdM
 
...Now I just need to figure out a way to differentiate between different modes while flying or pay attention not to flip the on/off switch fast to change the mode...

I'd suggest a fiber optic indicator. Can be as simple as a couple strands or a bent plastic bar aiming the light toward the cockpit. In my case, the edges of my lens are not exactly flush or covered, so I'm seeing an "edge lit panel" effect. Same concept applies to those little plexiglass "flags" attached to the nav lights on some airplanes.
 
Two month reliability update? My wife reports the 'noisy' one I gave her to use as an actual flashlight is getting 'temperamental' but I personally have not looked at it.
 
For another data point, I decided to go with the Baja Designs Squadron lights. Got them installed and flew them last night for the first time. I mounted them in the tips using a combination of the popular long screws and springs method for aiming adjustment and utilizing the supplied mounting bracket.

I aimed them level with the fuselage longerons but will be adjusting them down for the next flight.

With them aimed high to begin with and given I'm flying a tail dragger, the lights were pointing at the sky during taxi, but I found enough light spills over to see fairly well in that mode.

On final I didn't get the beams on the pavement through touchdown but even then there was enough light to land by.

As I've only been wheel landing the airplane, when I pushed the tail up to pin the landing the lights really came alive and really lit up the runway.

I'll be aiming them down 2 or 3 degrees and I think I'm going to love the lights!

Oh, and they're dead quiet!

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Wire size?

For another data point, I decided to go with the Baja Designs Squadron lights. Got them installed and flew them last night for the first time. I mounted them in the tips using a combination of the popular long screws and springs method for aiming adjustment and utilizing the supplied mounting bracket.

I aimed them level with the fuselage longerons but will be adjusting them down for the next flight.

With them aimed high to begin with and given I'm flying a tail dragger, the lights were pointing at the sky during taxi, but I found enough light spills over to see fairly well in that mode.

On final I didn't get the beams on the pavement through touchdown but even then there was enough light to land by.

As I've only been wheel landing the airplane, when I pushed the tail up to pin the landing the lights really came alive and really lit up the runway.

I'll be aiming them down 2 or 3 degrees and I think I'm going to love the lights!

Oh, and they're des quiet

Hello Jesse,
I just received my squadron pro. I will install in the wingtips as well.
May I ask you what wire gauge you choose to power the lights?
Thanks,
Alain.
 
Pretty sure I used 14 gauge, but I pulled the wires before I ever installed the lights. Breaker/fuse is sized for the wire and I haven't had any trouble. You should check the amp draw from the specs though to be sure and size for that.
 
Yikes - $400 a pop!

The 4300lumen Squadron Pro's I have are incredibly bright. It seems the pricing tracks pretty linearly in terms of $ per lumen since these new lights are almost twice the price of the 4300 lumen version.
 
Mike, and other readers,

I just bought a pair of these bad boys from Baja Designs, and I wanted to thank you for your excellent research and write-up on these lights! For the record, here in January 2017 I paid $215 each from Baja Designs on eBay. You can buy directly from their own website as well, but the price is a bit higher. So the price has come down a bit, but not dramatically. If anyone is interested in these lights, it probably won't pay to wait, hoping for more price reductions.

I'm also posting because I did not put them in my wingtips like you and others have done. I originally built my wings with Duckworks lights from Vans, and I wanted to show everyone how easy it is to switch over to these.

Here are my original Duckworks 100W incandescent lights:

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Besides the fresh flat black paint, it was easy to cut out 2 squares of .032" sheet and fabricate these plates, and rivet them on to the existing brackets.

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The new lights drop right in place. Easy peasy!

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They're now ready to go back in the wings! This wasn't difficult at all, and I'm very pleased.

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I see you got the Squadron Pro model. Did you go with the Spot pattern?

I just bought the Duckworks kit. Planning to install the exact same.
 
Bruce,
Have you considered moving the lights closer to the lens? I have the AeroLEDS lights and turned the mounts the other way moving the light about 2" closer to the lens. I have tested them in my hangar and they are bright, but I think I may build a new mount to bring them closer to the lens.

Any thoughts? If I can dig my way into the hangar tomorrow, I will get a picture.
 
Whelen LED kit through Teamaerodynamix

In November I installed two Whelen wing tip LED light kits sold on the Team AeroDynamix website (teamaerodynamix.com). Each light kit cost me $155 and I got free shipping by entering their promo code "free shipping."

Installation was straightforward and I reused my old aluminum Halogen light brackets after enlarging the holes. I cannot compare the light output of these lights to the Baja lights since I haven't seen any output data, but I will say they are "significantly brighter" than the old 100w halogens they replaced. At $155 per light kit I thought they were a great choice. You might want to checkout these light kits!

I'm now thinking about adding a third light just below the bottom cowling where the cowling slips between two metal brackets at the top of the nose wheel to secure the cowling. This would place a useful light at the center of the aircraft and certainly help with taxiing on dark taxiways. Since LEDs draw less current than halogen bulbs, I think I can wire this new light to either my existing taxi or landing light switch. Wing tip lights, no matter how bright, still leave a pretty big dark gap right in front of you. And we all agree, one cannot have too much light on a dark night.
 
Whelen LED kit through Teamaerodynamix

In November I installed two Whelen wing tip LED light kits sold on the Team AeroDynamix website (teamaerodynamix.com). Each light kit cost me $155 and I got free shipping by entering their promo code "free shipping."

Installation was straightforward and I reused my old aluminum Halogen light brackets after enlarging the holes. I cannot compare the light output of these lights to the Baja lights since I haven't seen any output data, but I will say they are "significantly brighter" than the old 100w halogens they replaced. At $155 per light kit I thought they were a great choice. You might want to checkout these light kits!

I'm now thinking about adding a third light just below the bottom cowling where the cowling slips between two metal brackets at the top of the nose wheel to secure the cowling. This would place a useful light at the center of the aircraft and certainly help with taxiing on dark taxiways. Since LEDs draw less current than halogen bulbs, I think I can wire this new light to either my existing taxi or landing light switch. Wing tip lights, no matter how bright, still leave a pretty big dark gap right in front of you. And we all agree, one cannot have too much light on a dark night.
 
These are very nice looking lights and installs. Thanks for all the pics Bruce.

I have the stock(???) Vans halogen setup in my 7 wing tips (2009'ish vintage). I HATE THEM. They are virtually worthless at 50 watts and I am not even sure if they add any value as daytime lights. I think the builder had higher watt bulbs in there at some point but they seemed to have been too hot for the fiberglass tips and/or the lenses.

I was wondering what wiring I might need to do/modify to install something like these Baja's? I have separate strobe/nav lights. Also, nobody has discussed the heat output of these lights, that I could find. Are they a factor for anyone in the wing tips?

Thanks! Andy
 
These are very nice looking lights and installs. Thanks for all the pics Bruce.

I have the stock(???) Vans halogen setup in my 7 wing tips (2009'ish vintage). I HATE THEM. They are virtually worthless at 50 watts and I am not even sure if they add any value as daytime lights. I think the builder had higher watt bulbs in there at some point but they seemed to have been too hot for the fiberglass tips and/or the lenses.

I was wondering what wiring I might need to do/modify to install something like these Baja's? I have separate strobe/nav lights. Also, nobody has discussed the heat output of these lights, that I could find. Are they a factor for anyone in the wing tips?

Thanks! Andy

Hi Andy,

No wiring changes should be needed since the Baja Design Squadron and Squadron Pro both use less power than the 50W halogens you currently use (Squadrons use 40W, Squadron Pro uses 42W). Just rewire your existing wires to the squadrons. I use local grounds and haven't had any electrical noise issues. The head output is minimal - I have bene running these lights for over 3 years and I have no signs of heat affecting my wingtips. I've always been able to put my hands on the heat sinks while the lights are on.
 
WOW, that is great news Mike! Certainly better than I was hoping for. I am going to go back and reread this entire thread for install ideas. Then, I think I am going to take the plunge.

Just to make the install a little more challenging, what if I wanted to make them wigwag capable. Any good ideas for the control unit. Any noise issues coming from it? Thanks again.
 
Hi Andy,

Here's my write-up for adding a wig-wag to the LED landing lights.

http://www.rvplane.com/?categoryid=&dayid=1145

No need to go to B&C for the flasher - it's a Tridon EL13A2 Electronic Flasher, on Amazon for about $12. No noise whatsoever. I run them 100% of the time in wig-wag mode and get compliments left and right for how visible I am in the air.
 
Another vote for the Baja lights. I did the install exactly as described by the OP and am totally satisfied with the result. Set up the wigwag through the VP-X unit. Thanks to all for the input, great result.
 
I see you got the Squadron Pro model. Did you go with the Spot pattern?

I just bought the Duckworks kit. Planning to install the exact same.

Ken, yes. I bought the Spot pattern. My plane isn't quite ready to fly yet, but I'm very enthused about these lights. I can't wait to test them out! I'll post an update when I get some pictures.

Bruce,
Have you considered moving the lights closer to the lens? I have the AeroLEDS lights and turned the mounts the other way moving the light about 2" closer to the lens. I have tested them in my hangar and they are bright, but I think I may build a new mount to bring them closer to the lens.

Any thoughts? If I can dig my way into the hangar tomorrow, I will get a picture.

Rocky, that's something I never even considered or thought about. I suppose it would be easy enough to put some blocks under the edges of the bracket, to push it out closer to the lens, or turn it around as you suggested. The nutplates currently on the back would have to be drilled out and remounted to the other side, but that's easy enough. I guess my question is, why? Would there be a clear advantage to having them closer to the lens?
 
Ken, yes. I bought the Spot pattern. My plane isn't quite ready to fly yet, but I'm very enthused about these lights. I can't wait to test them out! I'll post an update when I get some pictures.



Rocky, that's something I never even considered or thought about. I suppose it would be easy enough to put some blocks under the edges of the bracket, to push it out closer to the lens, or turn it around as you suggested. The nutplates currently on the back would have to be drilled out and remounted to the other side, but that's easy enough. I guess my question is, why? Would there be a clear advantage to having them closer to the lens?

You don't need to move these any closer to the leading edge. They are super bright and you can see everything at night with these lights. Taxiing and landings are no problem in the stock position. I get controllers commenting on how bright my lights are all of the time.
 
You don't need to move these any closer to the leading edge. They are super bright and you can see everything at night with these lights. Taxiing and landings are no problem in the stock position. I get controllers commenting on how bright my lights are all of the time.

Do you have the Spot or Driving pattern on yours?
:cool:
 
After reading Mike Bullocks original post of this thread, a few months ago I installed the Baja Design LED spot lights in my wingtips. Now that I have these, I wouldn't consider anything else. I also installed the Perihelion Design wig wag switch at the same time. I had read someones post about getting the light beams to "come together" in front of the plane. I did get them to come together. Mounting them as far out board helps. Also they had to be mounted with the face of the LEDS a little forward of the face of the wing tip surface where they come through. Another hugh benefit for me was the reduction in current draw. My old style lights were drawing 24 amps with both L&R on! Sometimes my alt breaker would trip. With these, I'm drawing only about 6 amps with both on. I can sit with engine at idle and have no issues. As far as radio noise, I'm happy to say there is none at all. Here are a couple of photos and a short video of them in operation.

Edited to add this note. Someone here posted a link to a study done by Quantis Airlines. They had done a study and discovered that their commercial jets which were equipped with wig wags had a significant reduction in the number of bird strikes compared to those without wig wags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HUNLuYrJE


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First I had tried to mount them flush/recessed but was not able to get the light beams to come together that way, (the aft side of the LEDS would hit the outside sections of the wing preventing the angle from increasing to bring the beams together. This is why they must be forward slightly of the face of the wing tip area they come thru. Here are a couple pics. The first one is with the face unpainted. You can see the rivet pattern from the mount thats behind it. The second picture I uploaded as large as I could so you could see it better from the back. The foil heat shield was left in place from the old lights. These LEDS don't produce much heat at all. Hope this helps. You will LOVE these lights. I want to thank the original poster of this thread for bringing them to our attention!!!

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Hi Paul. It appears you are getting your left/right adjustment using the supplied bracket, however how are you getting your up/down adjustment?
Tom.
 
Hey Tom, for up and down I just elongated one of the screw holes so it rotates just a tiny bit.
 
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Baja Design leading edge taxi light

My RV-6 came with RMD wingtip lights only (both sides) with 50W par36 bulbs installed. Not much light, so I upgraded to 35W HIDs.

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Also adjusted both lights IN and DOWN as far as I could. This made for great lighting on takeoff and landing (with the tail up), but nil taxi lighting with the tail down. The light beams just didn't touch the pavement. So the decision was made to install a leading edge light kit on the pilot's side at least.

I picked the Baja Design Pro round led with the combo lens. Spot lens on top, and driving lens on the bottom. Since my light kit was designed for a PAR36 lamp, and the BAJA Designs is slightly smaller, I just needed to make an adapter plate to mount this. I used the factory bezel as a pattern for this part.

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Very pleased with the result. Initially, I had the lamp bracket adjusted to point DOWN as far as I could
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I've since adjusted the beam a bit higher. Very impressive LEDs.
 
Hi Guys!!! I buy the AEROLEDS SUNRAY PLUS LANDING LIGHT NON-TSO for my RV-9A, and I was wondering if you guys have any advice to install them in the wingtip area, any help I will appretiate!
Thank You!
 
In this photo is what the Baja Designs look like from the ground. I was flying over to my GF's house and she took this of me. She said from the time she took this photo until I was over her house was 6-7 minutes. At the groundspeed I was showing, that calculated out to 18-20 miles! I had the wig wags on so really, what you see in this photo is just 1...ONE of the lights! They are incredibly bright. Very happy with them. Some of my airport buddies tell me they can see me a "long long ways off" and they know it's me because my lights are so bright.

IMG_9553 by Paul Gray, on Flickr
 
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One of each?

This is a great thread. I am nearing the point of needing to commit to a lighting solution to finish my wings and am interested in the Baja Design products for landing/taxi lights for my RV-9A. It seems most of the posters that have installed these lights go with a pair of the spot pattern units. I am considering using a spot unit on one wingtip for landing and a spot/flood unit on the other for taxi use. The spot pattern seems very narrow and might not light up the edges of a wide runway. Anybody have an opinion on this? Thanks.
 
When I first got my lights I too was concerned about the beam angles. I setup one light and measured the angle then compared that the angle of attack of the aircraft on approach then in the tail low position and your associated focal distances. The beam angles were quite adequate to cover both scenarios, and worst case, you can angle one slightly down and one up. I don't yet have the aircraft flying, so hopefully someone can chime in who has some airborne experience with them.
Tom.
 
OK, time for me to chime in. Please keep in mind we've only very recently had the 25-hour restrictions removed from our new airplane - those initial restrictions included "Day-VFR ONLY". In the last couple of weeks I've managed to get two night landings done.

We have a Baja Squadron Pro in each wingtip. That's what they were called when purchased and were billed as being 4300 lumens each. I chose the narrowest spot beam pattern because we have wildlife in the runway environment at our airport.

I've aimed both lights inward and downward - don't ask by how much because this was purely a "TLAR" (That Looks About Right) aiming of the lights conducted against the hangar wall 15 feet in front of the airplane. Turns out my initial guess was pretty good. The light beams converge about 200 feet in front of the airplane. This configuration allows the runway numbers and first thousand feet or so of the runway to be illuminated while in the nose-down approach attitude. As one rounds out in the flare the entire runway ahead is illuminated.

I might consider changing the lens on one light to a spot/driving combo such that two of the four emitters have diffusers in front of them. That would provide a bit more "spill" that would fill in immediately in front of the aircraft as we are taxiiing. I've provisioned for a pair of smaller (and much less expensive) LED units in the lower engine cowl and expect I'll install them to fill in for taxi purposes and leave the big Baja's turned off when taxiing. Man those things are bright!

With respect to the photo posted by Paul Gray, I chose these lights because of a similar experience reported by another builder of our aircraft type. He was flying in the smokey air of California and had a water bomber crew contact him on the radio to ask what kind of lights he was running. They reported him as being quite visible at a GPS-measured distance of 20 miles. I figured that was a good reason to go with the Baja Squadron Pro's. I wig-wag them for daylight operations, leaving them running all the time, from engine start to shut down.
 
Baja Design is RV-9A?

Looking through this thread, I see most of the wingtip installations have been done in -7"s and -8's. I am under the impression the RV-9(A) has a different wingtip profile that may be smaller with less space inside the cavity. Has anyone tried fitting the Baja Design Pro lights in a -9(A) wingtip?
 
Doug and I have been chatting about this offline...
There's quite a few of you out there with an RV9 and the Flyleds Skinny boards. Which landing lights did you fit, and can you please share a photo or two?
(I can host your photos if you haven't set up anything else.)

 
I installed the skinny boards and squadron pros in the tips of my -10; I think the tips are similar to those in the -9.

It is a very tight fit. These will be great for recognition / visibility with wig wag; I have not had a chance to flight test them and see how they look in terms of illumination forward and towards the midline. You are somewhat restricted in terms of how much they can be angled inwards due to the shape of the wingtip cutouts.

Thanks to those who sent me pics for the ideas on installation.

The flyleds are GREAT - super bright, and the installation process was very easy.

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Two years ago I put a pair of Baja Design PAR36 "bulbs" in my C150 and find them just slightly better than incandescents. For the money spent I don't think they're worth it.

For the last few years I've been flying with the flashlight drop-ins in the -6 and like them. Far superior to the Baja's. At night with these lights I've had to land on our grass runway when the PCL box failed and didn't have a problem. There were noise problems initially but that problem has been completely solved.

The drop-ins being now used are these:

http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S025575....Mode-LED-Drop-in-for-TrustFire-3T6-Flashlight

These units, coupled with an adjustable DC-DC converter set to 10.3V, operate noise-free:

http://a.co/eyWVBwd

Noise levels were validated with a spectrum analyzer.

Over the summer we retrofitted these onto a friends RV7 with the stock MR-16 lights in the wingtips. I flew the airplane quite a bit at night before and after and there's a night and day difference (pun intended.)
 
Nice. I tried something similar in the past but they were so noisy and unusable. I see this flashlight head is a 1 mode version, does that mean on/off only? Would that work then with wigwag flasher?
 
Nice. I tried something similar in the past but they were so noisy and unusable. I see this flashlight head is a 1 mode version, does that mean on/off only? Would that work then with wigwag flasher?

It will work fine with a wigwag as long as the wigwag circuit is a solid state circuit and not a bulb flashing circuit.
 
Looks like a good and economical alternative to Baja

Bob, how did you select that color temp LED over the 6500K's?

Some of the buck DC-DC converters on Amazon that pop up look more robust and more easily mounted than the ones you went with. How did you settle on these vs heat-sinked models with fewer "I must have gotten a dud" reviews?

You run these at 10.xV, but the spec sheet calls out 3800 lumens at 8.3V I believe. This is kosher in your experience? Heat not an issue?

I love the idea and will order some to tinker with; don't want to release any magic smoke. Was just about to pull the trigger on a pair of Baja's - this will be much easier to get past the Accounting Department Head :D
 
The 4500K are more like natural light. In the -6 I have 6500K LEDs. I prefer the 4500K lights. I'd bet though that the 6500K LEDs are probably more visible to other aircraft.

At 10.3V the lights get to their maximum brightness with no noise. Any more than that the LED's internal regulator begins to clip and you start seeing the noise on the spectrum analyzer.

There are better DC-DC converters I'm sure one can find but the ones I use are inexpensive and work fine.
 
Likewise, I used a flashlight (trustfire 1100 LM) and worked great. I had just about zero noise on high, SOS or strobe setting but a bit of noise on the low setting which I never used. They were really bright and I am planning on using the same in my new plane.
 
Likewise, I used a flashlight (trustfire 1100 LM) and worked great. I had just about zero noise on high, SOS or strobe setting but a bit of noise on the low setting which I never used. They were really bright and I am planning on using the same in my new plane.
How do you mount and wire these flashlights and/or led's? Definitely sound like an economical alternative to the Baja Squadron Pros.

Nevermind... found it earlier in this thread.
 
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RocketBob

...I am starting to wonder about this supplier.

Ordered from Kaidomain March 8th. Order shipped the 17th per their email. I guess the slow boat from China is... slow.

Does this match your experience?

ETA: their tracker email says my flashlight heads have cleared customs and are leaving JFK Int'l today. I'll give that another week. We're spoiled by Amazon. Back in the day, if I'd ordered these from Boys' Life or Popular Mechanix, they'd be next year getting here if they came at all.
 
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