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How to mount GPS antenna to fiberglass canopy?

sritchie

Well Known Member
Hey all,

I'm currently researching how exactly to mount my Dynon and Garmin WAAS GPS antennae to the cabin top underneath the overhead console, and wanted to double check what I'm finding.

The solutions out there seem to be:

1. Industrial strength velcro?? I've found a few references to this. Is this legit?
2. Actually cutting hole in the cabin top and mounting the antennae inside. (I have an overhead console, so I think this is off the table.

Is Velcro really an option? If not, I'm imagining that I'm going to want to glass in pieces of harder fiberglass with nutplates mounted to them.

I'd love some guidance from folks on best practices here. I'm much more comfortable working with fiberglass, but tricks like this, which must be just bread and butter for folks that build whole airplanes out of fabric, are still out of my reach.

Thank you!
 
I would not trust velcro outside the cabin, and you'd have to make a hole for the cable anyway. Mine are mounted through the fiberglass but I did that before I installed the overhead console. It might be a bit difficult once the console is in place. Is aft of the baggage bulkhead an option for you?
 
What about the ground plane? Garmin recommends an 18" dia ground plane for their GA 35 WAAS antenna.
 
What about the ground plane? Garmin recommends an 18" dia ground plane for their GA 35 WAAS antenna.

I have an older GTN 650 install manual and it only mentions the ground plane for the Com antenna not the GPS GA 35. My 650's GPS antenna and the G3X GPS/XM antenna are both mount externally to the cabin top between the doors even though I have an overhead console; no ground plane under either and they work just fine. Maybe I just got lucky - I don't know.

As an aside, my Number 1 Com antenna is on top of the tailcone just aft of the baggage bulkhead so I extended its ground plane out onto the cabin top using 3 runs of 3/8" wide copper foil that I embedded into the fiberglass.
 
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No - if external use standard mounting screws.

On my RV-10 I mounted the GTN-650 and SkyView GPS antenna on top of the glareshield, one on each side. I added a piece of dark cloth over the GTN-650 antenna to keep the glare off the windshield.

Both antennas worked perfectly in this location.

Carl
 
I don't see why Velcro wouldn't work. You could also glue it on with 5 minute epoxy, or other non-metallic glue.
Since you are mounting it inside, I think you can probably even mount it upside down without any issues, but you might want to verify that with the manufacturer.
GPS antennas do not need a ground plane. This is demonstrated by any portable GPS with the antenna sticking out of it or on a suction cup on the window.
Good luck.
 
I'm definitely planning on mounting it INSIDE the cabin, hidden by the overhead console. I agree that velcro on the outside wouldn't be ideal :)

I guess if I didn't want to do that, a better idea would be to attach them with screws to the metal plates that screw in to the overhead console. I don't have anything mounted on those right now, and if I wanted to later I could introduce standoffs. Then the GPS antennae don't have to be upside down and I don't have to modify the cabin top at all.

Any thoughts on that approach?
 
Is your overhead console carbon fibre like those provided by Aerosport? If so, my understanding is that you can use it as the ground plane. I was discussing this with a fellow RV10 builder who is an electrical engineer and he said that although GPS antennas don't really require a ground plane, he mounted his under the canopy on overhead console which being carbon fibre, was conductive.
 
GPS antennas do not need a ground plane.
Tell it to Garmin. The installation instructions for the GDL-82 require a large one under the GA 32 WAAS antenna. It's a matter of signal-to-noise ratio, I think. The bigger the ground plane, the more signal. You handheld devices can get away with lesser signal. From this graph, it looks like you get 5dB of gain with a 70x70 cm ground plane, and 0 dB with a 30x30 cm ground plane. If my math is right, you get 3 times the signal with a large ground plane.

DeKL9.png
 
Tell it to Garmin. The installation instructions for the GDL-82 require a large one under the GA 32 WAAS antenna. It's a matter of signal-to-noise ratio, I think. The bigger the ground plane, the more signal. You handheld devices can get away with lesser signal. From this graph, it looks like you get 5dB of gain with a 70x70 cm ground plane, and 0 dB with a 30x30 cm ground plane. If my math is right, you get 3 times the signal with a large ground plane.

DeKL9.png

And yet neither the GTN nor G3X install manuals mandate a ground plane for the GPS antenna. Go figure...
 
Is your overhead console carbon fibre like those provided by Aerosport? If so, my understanding is that you can use it as the ground plane. I was discussing this with a fellow RV10 builder who is an electrical engineer and he said that although GPS antennas don't really require a ground plane, he mounted his under the canopy on overhead console which being carbon fibre, was conductive.

Yes, it's the aerosport console. Okay, that makes sense. I'll go ahead and mount them on the supplied metal inserts... that way I can get my ground plane and ease of installation.
 
Yes, it's the aerosport console. Okay, that makes sense. I'll go ahead and mount them on the supplied metal inserts... that way I can get my ground plane and ease of installation.

FWIW, he says that the GPS has worked flawlessly with that setup. Good luck!
 
I'm definitely planning on mounting it INSIDE the cabin, hidden by the overhead console. I agree that velcro on the outside wouldn't be ideal :)

....

I think that an internal mount for the Garmin GTN650 antenna would violate the manufacturers instructions and its associated STC.

If it's going to be used for IFR operations isn't "approved" (aka STC'd) equipment required?
 
I think that an internal mount for the Garmin GTN650 antenna would violate the manufacturers instructions and its associated STC.

If it's going to be used for IFR operations isn't "approved" (aka STC'd) equipment required?

Just a nit?it?s TSO?d not STC?d.
 
I think that an internal mount for the Garmin GTN650 antenna would violate the manufacturers instructions and its associated STC.

If it's going to be used for IFR operations isn't "approved" (aka STC'd) equipment required?

I don?t think you can get an STC for an EAB, since it doesn?t have a type certificate to begin with. I think the acronym you meant was ?TSO?, and, yes, the TSO specifies external mounting. I take statements ?it has worked perfectly for me? with a grain of salt - the TSO requirements have a lot of worse-case scenarios to meet.
 
Just a nit—it’s TSO’d not STC’d.

Thanks, both of you... you are correct, not enough caffeine this morning...:)

And as Bob T quotes "it works for me in my plane" doesn't mean that it will pass all of the required tests for full IFR certification.
 
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GTN's need a Gamma 3 capable antenna to allow LPV approaches.
G5 and GDU's need GPS for attitude stabilization and VFR navigation (Gamma1)
 
One thing to be aware of. When I talked to Van's technical support they said they do NOT recommend drilling any holes in the fiberglass cabin top that are not specified in the plans, as the fiberglass top is a structural member. So if you can mount the antenna below the cabin top, say inside the overhead console, without drilling any holes through the top, you should be ok. After a lot of reading and study, I came up with antenna arrangements that allow me to mount both GPS antennas, one Com antenna, and the ELT antenna all on the aluminum top skin behind the fiberglass cabin top, while still maintaining recommended spacing between antennas, ground planes, and distance from the vertical stab.

The second Com antenna is on the rear fuselage bottom, with the Xponder/ADS-B antenna forward in the tunnel but away from the gear legs.

Regards
 
One thing to be aware of. When I talked to Van's technical support they said they do NOT recommend drilling any holes in the fiberglass cabin top that are not specified in the plans, as the fiberglass top is a structural member. So if you can mount the antenna below the cabin top, say inside the overhead console, without drilling any holes through the top, you should be ok. After a lot of reading and study, I came up with antenna arrangements that allow me to mount both GPS antennas, one Com antenna, and the ELT antenna all on the aluminum top skin behind the fiberglass cabin top, while still maintaining recommended spacing between antennas, ground planes, and distance from the vertical stab.

The second Com antenna is on the rear fuselage bottom, with the Xponder/ADS-B antenna forward in the tunnel but away from the gear legs.

Regards

I?m no engineer, and certainly don?t have any data to refrute Vans conservative recommendation, but I?m 100% confident that the two GPS antennas I have mounted to the top of my cabin and their associated holes have not significantly compromised the structure. Maybe I?m a fool and living on borrowed time so I guess ignorance is bliss. YMMV....
 
That?s Why It?s Experimental

I?m no engineer, and certainly don?t have any data to refrute Vans conservative recommendation, but I?m 100% confident that the two GPS antennas I have mounted to the top of my cabin and their associated holes have not significantly compromised the structure. Maybe I?m a fool and living on borrowed time so I guess ignorance is bliss. YMMV....

That?s why it?s called an experimental aircraft. We are each allowed to use our best judgement in building our planes. As a degreed and registered electrical engineer, I?m going to respect Van?s qualified aeronautical and structural engineering advice and not put any antenna on the outside of the fiberglass cabin top. Other builders are just as free to ignore that advise if they wish.
 
install GPS within the overhead console

I'm definitely planning on mounting it INSIDE the cabin, hidden by the overhead console. I agree that velcro on the outside wouldn't be ideal :)

I guess if I didn't want to do that, a better idea would be to attach them with screws to the metal plates that screw in to the overhead console. I don't have anything mounted on those right now, and if I wanted to later I could introduce standoffs. Then the GPS antennae don't have to be upside down and I don't have to modify the cabin top at all.

Any thoughts on that approach?

yes, you're right on with this approach. I installed the Dynon GPS-250/2020 with 15lb double sided tape to the inside of the overhead console. Has worked for me flawlessly.

Pascal
 
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