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  #1  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:38 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Default Need some 430W / Dynon help

I'm just finishing up my instrument training, getting ready to take my practical, and I'm trying to diagnose a problem with coupled approaches.

My equipment is full Dynon Skyview Classic, with the ARINC-429 being fed from a Garmin 430W. It works absolutely great for coupled approaches on the RNAV (GPS) side, and when I move the Skyview HSI source to the 430W NAV side I can see the ILS glideslope just fine, BUT the ILS course is always set to 150 degrees and the autopilot will try to turn to 150 degrees regardless of what the actual ILS course is. I have to use the localizer display on the 430W itself and the glideslope display on the Skyview HSI to hand-fly the ILS.

What am I missing here? How do I get the 430W to adjust the Skyview HSI (and autopilot commands) to the correct heading on the localizer? It will lock on and follow the localizer just fine in GPS mode - but NAV mode always brings it to 150 degrees. I'm suspicious this is a configuration problem since 150 degrees is the default test heading put out by the 430W on power-up self-test, but I've been unable to find a configuration problem so far. As a troubleshooting point, I know that the "bearing source" displayed on Skyview HSI will correctly show direction to VOR's being received on the 430W, so I know the connection between the NAV side of the 430W and the ARINC appears good. So far I've been doing this with the autopilot in heading control and NAV armed to capture, and when it captures it just obediently follows the HSI and turns to 150 degrees regardless of the actual localizer direction.

Any ideas?
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Last edited by airguy : 09-24-2018 at 11:44 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:17 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Don't know much about the Dynon, but the 430 doesn't provide a magnetic course for the localizer. It is a simple CDI. 430 provides number of degrees off course, based upon an interpretation of the radio navigation signal received.

On my GRT, it does provide the actual localize course, in degrees, but it gets that from it's own navigation database and also asks the pilot to confirm it is correct before setting the HSI to it. My guess is that Dynon doesn't do such an operation and it requires the pilot to dial in the course if you want the proper course indication to appear on your HSI. I would assume the OBS knob would perform that function. This is routine for 6 pack pilots. They manually dial in the course on the HSI and maybe Dynon wanted to emulate that.

Remember, with ILS there is no broadcasted course, only broadcasted/interpreted deviation from the course line layed out in the IAP and orchestrated with directional positioning of the antenna.

The Dynon AP should be following the CDI for directional guidance, not the course set in the HSI on an ILS. I would venture that you need to tell the Skyview that your are doing a LOC/ILS approach and not a GPS approach. There should be an AP source function and you need to be selecting VOR/LOC/ILS and not GPS or TRACK. This is pretty basic for EFIS, so there must be a setting somewhere. TYpically you approach the LOC via GPS guidance and then inercept LOC course. This requires a change in the EFIS/AP to move from a Track based guidance to a CDI based guidance. I know some do this automatically, bus suspect some require manual intervention. Some see the change when you switch to VLOC mode on the 430.

Be advised, for your test you need to know that the ILS approach is only legal if your AP is following the CDI. You are not legal if your AP is following a magnetic course reference while on the ILS course, no matter where it came from. I suspect that some examiners would fail you for this if they noticed that was happening. Hand flying, you can follow whatever you want, but still must maintain a specific CDI deviation tolerance.

Also, if you don't switch the 430 from VNAV mode, I believe it does provide GPS guidance down the course. It is critical that you switch it to VLOC mode once on the course to be legal. This change can occur automatically in the 430, but requires the correct settings in the 430. I am pretty sure the examiners look for that, as it must be a common mistake.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 09-24-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:31 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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You need to set the CRS to runway heading on the SkyView for ILS and LOC approaches. You do not do this for GPS approaches.

Read page 4-14 of the Pilot User Manual: http://dynonavionics.com/public_html...ev_Z_v15_3.pdf

Carl
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:47 AM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
You need to set the CRS to runway heading on the SkyView for ILS and LOC approaches. You do not do this for GPS approaches.

Read page 4-14 of the Pilot User Manual: http://dynonavionics.com/public_html...ev_Z_v15_3.pdf

Carl
Another method is; once established on the localizer, go the G430 flight plan screen and select "direct" to the runway. Then everything works as expected. There is more than one way to skin this cat.

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Last edited by GalinHdz : 09-25-2018 at 06:49 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:03 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
You need to set the CRS to runway heading on the SkyView for ILS and LOC approaches. You do not do this for GPS approaches.

Read page 4-14 of the Pilot User Manual: http://dynonavionics.com/public_html...ev_Z_v15_3.pdf

Carl
Flew into work this morning (which I don't normally do) just to test this - and then the ILS was out of service anyway. Oh well... maybe this afternoon...
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Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #6  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:57 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalinHdz View Post
Another method is; once established on the localizer, go the G430 flight plan screen and select "direct" to the runway. Then everything works as expected. There is more than one way to skin this cat.


Be careful with doing it this way. It might work most of the time, but DIRECT TO is to the center of the airport, while the localizer is lined up with the runway centerline. The best and correct way is to use the course knob on the EFIS or the knobs panel and enter the inbound course as depicted on the approach chart.

On the new AFS software, a window pops up reminding you to set the inbound course. It's pretty cool.

Vic
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:07 PM
Jrskygod Jrskygod is offline
 
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Greg I think you have a configuration problem. I have the identical setup and have it set up so that ILS approaches are automatic. I have the GPS set to automatically switch to ILS mode when in proximity to the Loc and the Dynon is also set to switch the HSI to the correct input.

When flying you configure the radio for the approach and just fly the needle to the initial or vectors until established. When you are near the course the radio automatically switches you go from a magenta to a green arrow and you get the glideslope indicator. If hand flying just follow the arrows. If on autopilot it will fly the localizer but you must push the VNAV button to follow the glideslope.

PM me your phone number and I can text you my radio settings.
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  #8  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:32 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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What Ted said is correct - if you configure the SkyView to automatically shift from GPS to LOC/ILS. I prefer to keep this a manual shift. Just decide what you want.

Carl
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  #9  
Old 09-25-2018, 01:37 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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OK, the various parts are starting to come together and make a little sense to me now. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but here's the way I have it right now.

First, I have autoswitching disabled - doing it manually on both the 430W and the HSI source on Skyview. I have noticed that if I dial in the ILS approach, the localizer shows correctly if the Skyview is looking at the GPS side of the 430W, but the NAV side of the 430W as a source gives 150 degrees regardless. If I leave it on the GPS side, the autopilot will capture and fly the localizer just fine but it will not display a glideslope for me since that comes from the NAV side.

If autoswitch is enabled, and the approach starts from the GPS side, then HSI course should automatically be set from the GPS side of the 430W. Then when you pass the IF and that FAF leg comes active and the 430W switches to VLOC mode, the Skyview should follow that switch and go to the NAV side of the 430W for CDI deviation correction while still following the preset (from the GPS) course of runway heading.

Correct?

I'm curious about this because, today when manually switching the PFD HSI source from GPS to NAV side, it does NOT carryover the course direction. It must be something in the automatic switching that carries that over?
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Greg Niehues - PPSEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
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N16GN flying! http://websites.expercraft.com/airguy/
Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 09-25-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-25-2018, 02:27 PM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse View Post
Be careful with doing it this way. It might work most of the time, but DIRECT TO is to the center of the airport, while the localizer is lined up with the runway centerline. The best and correct way is to use the course knob on the EFIS or the knobs panel and enter the inbound course as depicted on the approach chart.

On the new AFS software, a window pops up reminding you to set the inbound course. It's pretty cool.

Vic
Didn't think about that small issue but you are correct.
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