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GPS Approach capability for $600.

KRviator

Well Known Member
'Evening all.

Given the Australian Gumby-ment made the decision to withdraw the vast majority of our ground-based navigation aids down here has meant we are now transitioning primarily to GNSS-based Nav sources down under.

As I don't require the capability a G430 will give me and a GTN is out of the question until the kids move out in another 15 years time, I looked around and found the KLN-90B will talk to SkyView using the ARINC module. After a month or so watching Ebay, I found one for $500 and snapped it up. Now bear in mind this is a 20-year-old GPS so it won't make you coffee in flight, and it is lucky to have a rudimentary moving-map display, but by all accounts it is a pretty good unit once you get over the learning curve. Read the manual, plug it in at home and it is fairly easy once you understand the dual-concentric knobs and menu structure.

The KLN-90B at home. Green-screen. Very retro...
29787951250_f3cd01c5bf_z.jpg


But, like most panel-mount navigators, it will often require an external annunciator panel, to relay some indications and give you the option to switch between modes on the fly. Pardon the pun. Ahem.

After seeing Spruce and the usual vendors wanted megadollars for a Mid-Continent annunciator panel, I looked through the installation manual and decided I could make my own quite easily. So, with a little headscratching, and a temporary bracket, here is the result on the test bench (aka the dinner table):

30048589106_04dcf49bdb_z.jpg


The left switch indicates the approach status, Active or Armed, and is a DPST momentary switch that will alternate between these two modes when pressed, by grounding the relevant pin on the KLN.

The right switch currently indicates Message and Waypoint Transition, and pressing this switch will alternate between OBS and LEG modes on the GPS. For some reason I thought the KLN required an external LEG/OBS annunciator, but it only required an external switch to change these two modes. So V2 will have a replacement actuator for this particular switch and will combine MSG/WPT functions into the top LED and have the bottom LED permanently illuminated showing the LEG/OBS text.

Total cost for the GPS, 3 switches and custom actuators was $600 AUD. The switches are Carling part #: VBD2YNHB that translates into a DPST Momentary switch, with two independent LED's. This is important as most switches have 1 independent light and 1 dependent, the difference being the dependent one is only illuminated when the circuit is active. With both being independent, they can be driven by the KLN-90B. They came from Spemco, the custom actuators came from RockerSwitchPros.

Now, for those in the US and Canada where you have the option of LPV approaches, a GNS-430W is an attractive option, so having such a simple C129 GPS doesn't make an awful lot of sense unless you supplement it with VOR/ILS capability in another unit. But for those down here, and elsewhere, something like this might give you a fairly cheap approach capability. IT also isn't limited to the KLN series, a bloke on the Dynon forums has done a very similar thing with a Garmin 300XL.
 
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Not sure where to start with this.
I'm assuming your planning to move your plane into the experimental VH category before proceeding down the IFR path.

I'd recommend talking to the SAAA or a CASA delegate before you go too far down this path as I expect that you are unlikely to get an IFR CofA issued with this type of setup. At a minimum in OZ you'll have to carry a VOR or ADF now as you won't have a 146GPS. Given there are bugger all VORs around now I'd say you'll struggle to file with any alternates within fuel range as well.

FWIW I got a super good deal on a used TSO 129 300XL GPS/COM when I first built my plane. Cheaper than a straight second COMM. I also got a 430W.
Having done a fair bit of IFR in the RV I wouldn't dream of planning on using it for an approach compared to the 430. I'm sure it's possible but...I'm not even sure you'd be able to get a current database for it either.

Also we have he issue of ADSB etc as well which requires a 146 pos source too.

Prob worth having a read of CAO 20.18 if you haven't already. You'd only get away with the 129 GPS/VOR/ADF combo as a grandfathered setup.

You need a 146 GPS to legally fly IFR in this country now as a new setup. PM or email if you need more info.

Cheers
 
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G'day Richard, I had looked over CAO20.18 before buying the KLN, and you are correct in regards to a C146 GPS being required for new IFR registrations. Even without filing IFR, which for me is aways down the track anyway, the installation of the KLN gives NVFR RNAV capability. Databases are still available for the KLN-90B, including cartridges, if you don't want to electronically update it yourself.

The VOR requirement is going to be met by the installation of a Val Nav 2KR, that will talk to SkyView via a serial connection and can be tucked away behind the panel and give VOR/ILS/LLZ approach capability.

Besides, this was an interesting little project for me that might be able to help out others - so far as I know, we're the only country that requires a C146 GPS for navigation - even if 'they' don't like it come IFR-registration time, and will provide several safety benefits for me in the interim.
 
Good stuff Rob.
Looks like an interesting project and the switches certainly look flash.

The whole move to sole means GNSS has certainly felt like its come on quickly even though it's been on the pipeline for a while.

Most of my IFR is SE oz. haven't had a radio navaid in the flightplan at all for he last few months now that they've killed off the 50 odd navaids in NSW.
I'm disappointed they made up ridiculous ICAO compliant names for them all too!

Cheers
 
Richard,

I flew behind a KLN-89B for quite a while IFR in the US. Based on that experience, I think this unit will serve you well.

David
 
I went down this path of adding the 90b into my panel connected to my skyview. I hope you have a better experience than I did. I found the 90b difficult to use and not user friendly, especially trying to load and shoot approaches. I finally removed it for a GNS480.

Also, I wasn't aware that the Val Nav 2KR was communicating with the Skyview. I recall there being a lot of request for it. I put in the Val Nav 2000 instead. great unit.
 
Val Nav 2KR

The issue with the 2KR wasn't that it would not communicate with the Skyview, but that the Skyview couldn't tune it if the approach freqs weren't in the Skyview database. For that reason, I changed to the Nav 2000. If the tuning issue has been resolved, the 2KR is an elegant solution to ILS approaches.
 
Val K2R

Folks, the issues with the Val K2R is this. This information came from Val on a phone conversation with them a few months ago in regard to connecting the K2R with the SkyView.

Yes you can tune the K2R with the SkyView using the VOR tune under the info page, but the problem is this, it puts the the frequency in the standby side, and the only way you can put it in the active side is by a switch button data string which only works through the RS232 data line and SkyView does not offer that in their software. Val's panel mounted unit has the switch button on the panel unit, so you can do it. This works the same way with my SL30. SkyView tunes the standby, and I have to push the swap button on the SL30 to move it to the active side.

In the conversation to Val, I asked, how about you swap the code in the firmware of your unit for the SkyView guys, so when it sends the data string from the SkyView it will tune the primary frequency, and that way it would work fine with SkyView. I was told it was a good idea, and we will look into it. As far as I know, nothing has been done. This unit is the best choice for SkyView guys who want to keep everything behind the panel, and at this time, Dynon does not offer a VOR/LOC/ILS receiver.

If Dynon would add a NAV keypad like the new COM keypad in they new version 15, which has a swap button, they could also make it work.

Keep those wants coming to Dynon, so maybe they will do this for their customers, or come up with their own NAV units.

KRviator, if you do figure a way to get yours to work, please post, as I think a bunch of guys would love to get a Val K2R and install it remotely.

Another thing that might work is if you have a good insight into electronics, is to pick up an older NAV 2000 unit out of warranty, and add wire inside to the swap switch, and connect it to remote mounted switch on you panel, and remote mount the NAV2000. The SkyView will show the active frequency in the box next to the HSI when the NAV mode is selected.

Now that is what you call experimental and taking it outside the box. LOL
 
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Why not just insert a microcontroller between the skyview and 2kr to do the sentence translation? It's only 9600 baud serial, and the protocol is published.

Paige
 
OK, I will bite, how?

Since I am not a programmer, if that can work, I would be willing to give it a try, providing it is not that expensive.

Would you want to give me a hand in trying this out. I would be able to try it on my SL30, and experiment with it. If I can get my SL30 to go directly to the active side, I should be able to get it to work on the K2R.

The VAL command is,

Example to tune 117.00 in to active is,

$PMRV27E4N<chksm><CR><CR><LF>

Example to tune 117.00 in to standby is,

$PMRRV28E4N<chksm><CR><LF>

The only difference is the additional second R, changing the 27 to 28, and the extra <CR>

Brian
 
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If you want to roll your own, given your lack of experience and equipment, I'd recommend an arduino with a serial shield. The total hardware should cost less than $30 delivered. The footprint will be roughly the size of a pack of cigarettes. You'll just need a computer and USB port to program it. Tutorials are all over the web. Education and recreation right?

One serial port is all you need, just read the output from the Dynon, parse the sentence, modify the sentence, or pass it straight through. You'll have to re-calculate the checksum on the modified sentences.

If you need help on the checksum, send me a PM, I can probably dig up some code. If I remember correctly, it wasn't documented very well.

Paige
 
Going to try and tackle it soon

Paige,

Thanks. I have an Ardunio around here somewhere. My son is pretty good at this type of programming, so I will get his help and see what we can do. If I need anymore help, I will ask.

Thanks.

Brian
 
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