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  #1  
Old 06-13-2018, 05:18 PM
Larry DeCamp's Avatar
Larry DeCamp Larry DeCamp is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clinton, Indiana
Posts: 634
Default CFI question ?

Need to decide what controls to install in rear seat for a biennial in my RV4 project. Will a CFI be comfortable with throttle and rudder pedals. I rent a 172 or Decathalon since I am flying a -3 now. Would be nice to use my -4 in the future . Your perspective would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:19 PM
Dan B Dan B is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 161
Default

FAR 91.109 requires “fully functional dual controls”. I require the same to give a flight review.
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:22 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 700
Default

Depends on the CFI. Given the limited visibility in the back of the RV-4, my guess is that probably few would want to do that. I gave aerobatic dual from the back of a Decathlon, but I did the takeoffs and landings, not the student.

If you get your flight reviews in a different airplane with different handling characteristics and sight pictures, you may learn unexpected things. It's also the case that if you fly the same plane all the time, you'll start doing things "open loop" and putting in control inputs that you know from experience are correct, rather than feeling what the airplane is telling you.

Ed
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:44 AM
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dsmith1055 dsmith1055 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Memphis TN area
Posts: 77
Default RV4 rear controls for CFI

I am an RV4 builder and a CFI with 3000 hrs instructor time. I have instructed from the rear seat of Decathalons, Pitts, and others. I put a friend in the front of my RV4 and did several take offs and landings. The lack of brakes, limited rudder pedal travel, and poor visibility convinced me not to attempt instruction from the rear seat in my airplane. The lack of brakes and full rudder probably makes it illegal anyway.
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:42 AM
Larry DeCamp's Avatar
Larry DeCamp Larry DeCamp is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clinton, Indiana
Posts: 634
Default Thanks Dwight

Case closed. The -4 will get a removable rear stick (with bolt of course ), for the grand children to learn what makes a REAL Airplane turn, LOL.
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RV-4 fastback w/ Superior EXP 0360 /AFP & CPI
Clinton, IN
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:25 PM
sibriggs sibriggs is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 137
Default Dual Brakes

Current ruling and write up from AOPA.

https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advoca...-dual-controls
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:12 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Location: SC
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OK, I just read FAR Part 61, Section 56 which covers Flight Reviews.

As I suspected, there is no requirement for the CFI to even be in the plane.

This matches what a friend with an RV3 used to do. He would take off and the instructor would stand on the ground with a handheld radio and tell the pilot what he wanted the pilot to do. (Mostly aerobatic maneuvers, it was always a great show!)

That said, good luck finding a CFI who will work with you.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2018, 05:50 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 700
Default

One more thought -- some folks build their planes for left seat PIC, with throttle etc on the left sidewall. That might be interesting to give dual in... :-)
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RV-8 (steam gauges), RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual screen G3X with autopilot, GTN 650)
Previously RV-4, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2018 dues paid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:02 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
OK, I just read FAR Part 61, Section 56 which covers Flight Reviews.

As I suspected, there is no requirement for the CFI to even be in the plane.

This matches what a friend with an RV3 used to do. He would take off and the instructor would stand on the ground with a handheld radio and tell the pilot what he wanted the pilot to do. (Mostly aerobatic maneuvers, it was always a great show!)
Folks used to do that early on, but that is no longer accepted. From 61.56, "Flight review":

"... a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training."

Section 61.1, "Applicability and definitions", defines Flight Training as:

"Flight training means that training, other than ground training, received from an authorized instructor in flight in an aircraft."


Note that a simulator may be used if the requirements set forth in 61.56 are met.
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Arlington, WA (KAWO)
RV-8, 355 Tach Hours
(Pic 1),(Pic 2)
- Out with the Old, In with the New
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Last edited by RV8JD : 06-14-2018 at 10:06 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:29 AM
Bill Boyd's Avatar
Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 1,090
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So now the instructor has to fly wing alongside your RV-3
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