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  #1  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:19 AM
rongawer's Avatar
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 325
Default Crosswinds!

I was landing yesterday at Byron with turbulent winds coming down off the Altamont mountains at 38 gusting to 44 KT from 200º, making runway 23 the favorable one with a crosswind component of 19-22KT. It was a bumpy landing, but mostly a non-event in the Baron.

However, I'm getting ready for my airworthiness inspection and hoping to be flying soon - which made me consider about crosswinds in the RV12. I've read other posts about it, and obviously the Van's POH that states 12 KT max crosswind and 35 max total wind.

How would you think the RV12 would handle landing in yesterdays winds on RW23?
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- RV10, N1530G (reserved). Empennage in progress.
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:52 AM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
 
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Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,478
Default too much

Ron, it is pretty clear to me that yesterdays wind would be no place for an RV12. Luckily, our weather forecasting is so good now days, we can be warned when the wind is coming. In an earlier life, I flew lighter tail draggers in Alaska. When unexpected winds came up, you just had to deal with it. Sometimes landing across the runway, instead of lined up with it. And then, tied down aircraft would "fly" in their ropes. I landed a Baron with its owner once, and the wingtip was just above the surface due to steady wind. It did not worry me but did surprise the owner. He later died in a Duke when an engine failed on takeoff. Proficiency can save the day.... but it is much better to go have coffee instead of fly in many cases.
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Work bio: Avionics tech support; ATP rated in planes.Helicopter rated, balloon instructor, seaplanes and for grins, Phantom Drone pilot. Instructor for air medical and law enforcement tactical radio systems. Fly my RV9A to work every week. Janitor when and as needed.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2018, 11:58 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
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Default My experience - -

With an RV-12 - work your way up very slowly until you know where you are comfortable. A 10kt 90 degree crosswind can be a real surprise in a very light plane. I have over 1,200 hours in my RV-12. Wind over 25kts sitting on the ramp can be more than you want to be in. The tip up can get away from you, or slam down and break things unless you have your hand on it. Slowly work your way up.
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2018, 12:59 PM
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MS19087 MS19087 is offline
 
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Default And there's that old saying . . .

"I'd rather in on the ground wishing I was in the air, then being in the air wishing I was on the ground" . . . this has always stuck with me
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2018, 01:19 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,023
Default xw

Crosswind limitations are also about having adequate control authority. It really doesn't matter if the pilot has the ability if the airplane doesn't...
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2018, 03:57 PM
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rongawer rongawer is offline
 
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Location: Brentwood, CA
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
Crosswind limitations are also about having adequate control authority. It really doesn't matter if the pilot has the ability if the airplane doesn't...
That's essentially my question - what is the limit of the RV12's control authority?

Normally, most POH's will state a Maximum Demonstrated Crosswind number, that is not a limit, but defined as, for example:
"The demonstrated crosswind velocity is the velocity of the crosswind component for which adequate control of the airplane during takeoff and landing was actually demonstrated during certification tests. The value shown is not limiting." Which is good, because my high-water mark for the Baron has been 56KT with a 30º (that's 28KT XW component) off down at Gen Fox (KWJF), and I commend Beechcraft on the amazing amount of rudder authority provided, which very much allows a competent, proficient pilot to land with confidence, even well above demonstrated crosswind.

BUT, aside from "don't do it", does anyone have advice based on the experience of landing in crosswinds of 15-20KT in the RV12, and if so, what was your impression? If it was difficult, what made it so? What defined your limit? Was it the lack of rudder authority? Was it taxiing?

Van's POH that states "Maximum Direct Crosswind Component is 11KT". So, is that a calculated limit? Is it really a limit? Compare that to a C150 that has a 15KT demonstrated XW and the additional high wing moment arm. Just how bad is the rudder authority of a 12? Or is the POH just being super conservative? It appears to be based on a percentage of stall (discussed in other threads), but I'm curious.

John, I appreciate your comments about sitting on the ramp at 25KT and concern for the canopy - but assuming you have a good handle on the canopy, what is the greatest handling concern?

Fortunately, I am based at a great airport for crosswind practice, with multiple runways and varying winds throughout the year. So I will work up to it, but I'm very interested in the high wind experiences of others. The lingering question in my mind is whether I need to keep my Baron for these days, or can I work a plan for the daily commute that includes the 12.

Or do I just go ahead and get going on my RV10 now and put the 12 up for sale...
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Last edited by rongawer : 05-31-2018 at 04:05 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2018, 04:25 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
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Default call

I do not know the limits on the 12 but if you call vans, they might be able to help...
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2017,...Thanks DR+
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  #8  
Old 05-31-2018, 04:34 PM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
Posts: 1,596
Default More comments - -

The RV-12 is light enough, that just about the time you think you are going to touch down, a slight puff of wind will have you back up - and quickly. I have developed the habit of taking the flaps off the second at least one wheel touches down. I have been describing to those interested, that landing the 12 is like having to be a "rabbit on the stick" for the last few seconds.

As far as the canopy. It will blow shut with a serious gust of say 25kts. You just want to close it a soon as possible if gusting winds ( whether getting in or out ). Also, with the castering nose wheel, if you get out with a serious wind, the plane will move on its own. Have chocks ready. Don't park too close to another plane. I am just saying, work your way up to where you feel comfortable.
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2018, 07:28 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBPILOT View Post
The RV-12 is light enough, that just about the time you think you are going to touch down, a slight puff of wind will have you back up - and quickly. I have developed the habit of taking the flaps off the second at least one wheel touches down. I have been describing to those interested, that landing the 12 is like having to be a "rabbit on the stick" for the last few seconds.

As far as the canopy. It will blow shut with a serious gust of say 25kts. You just want to close it a soon as possible if gusting winds ( whether getting in or out ). Also, with the castering nose wheel, if you get out with a serious wind, the plane will move on its own. Have chocks ready. Don't park too close to another plane. I am just saying, work your way up to where you feel comfortable.
I flew an RV-12 for a while - can't agree more with this and other comments. I got caught on one long cross country flight with higher than forecast, gusty winds (around 14-19kts) at 45 degrees to runway. The airplane was fully controllable with no loss of control authority but it was a lot of work. The airplane is so light and sensitive to gusts and up/down drafts that it requires full and undivided attention - not unsafe just very different from a heavier/higher wing loading type airframe. I flew a Bonanza for a while and it cut through crosswinds and gusts "like butter" compared to the RV-12.
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:00 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Default

Exceed the POH limits and you become a test pilot as I tell my students. As Dirty Harry would say, “Do you feel lucky?”
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