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  #21  
Old 05-13-2018, 09:44 AM
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rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw20c View Post
Are you kidding me? 4 hours per tank? Are we building the same thing? I have about a hundred hours in my tanks at this point. We must be building in very different ways.
You're probably counting different things. I suspect Kyle is counting only riveting time, not drill/debur/dimple/clean/etc.

I remember staying up late helping my dad rivet his tanks in high school. Jumped right into it on my plane and had fun (with 4 tanks).

Were I to do it again I'd mask off the inside of the tank to cut down on the mess, but overall it wasn't bad. Just wear crappy clothes, buy lots of gloves (Sam's!), and wear a respirator when you're using MEK. Take your time and do one rib at a time; add sealant to holes with a toothpick instead of dipping the rivet. Don't try to be stingy with sealant.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:05 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
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There are obviously many ways to get it done. A multi-offender taught me to use quart ziplock bags instead of caulk guns. Turn one inside out, weigh out a roughly golf ball size mix on the bag. Turn it right side out, squeeze out the air, and mix with a short piece of dowel or PVC pipe used like a roller. Roll the mix to one corner then push it back slightly. snip off about a 1/8" to 1/4" diagonal. Now you have a baker's cake decorator bag. Very easy to get into tight spots. On interior ribs, a donut around each rivet and the drop in each rivet hole (and over the shop head, for insurance) does all the sealing. Any additional sealant on the rest of the faying surface and/or edges is just lost payload.

On quantity vs leaks:
I built 2 ea -7 tanks, and 2 ea 3-bay leading edge aux tanks, with *one* can of sealant from Van. On the two main tanks, I had exactly one leaking rivet (probably near the end of a session on a bad day). The auxes had some back baffle leaks but those were purely my fault due to running the trailing edge beads too far forward on the skins (spar has a bigger radius than the tank back baffle).

Not the most fun part of the build, but orders of magnitude better than the massive quantity of wasted time searching for parts using that pick list who's order was created by a random number generator.

Charlie
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:10 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw20c View Post
Are you kidding me? 4 hours per tank? Are we building the same thing? I have about a hundred hours in my tanks at this point. We must be building in very different ways.
I'm an average builder from a speed perspective. Some things go fast for me, some go slow. The 4 hours/tank was the time to seal the tank, which in my case was to rivet and proseal the 6 or 7 baffles per tank.

But from start to finish, a non-PP tank took about a week (as I recall from 20 years ago) working bachelor length evenings (5+ hours). Drill everything one evening, maybe deburr a bit. Finish deburring the second evening and dimple. Make the stiffeners the third evening, dimple and deburr them. Also make that PITA front bracket and drill it on. Proseal and rivet the stiffeners the fourth evening, maybe do the end ribs with the squeezer too. The fifth evening (or on a weekend) bring a helper onboard to buck the rivets on the baffle ribs. After that, install the aft baffle, and you're done. Throw in an extra day somewhere for fitting/installing the filler neck and the plumbing and you're at about a week per tank.

Tear something up, run out of proseal, get called away on family duty? Those things create a huge time drag.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:19 AM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didja View Post
Debating on whether or not I want to build my own fuel tank or have it outsourced. Anyone have a recommendation for a shop that will build fuel tanks in the Arizona area?

Trying to get a figure on costs and experiences with anyone that may have outsourced the fuel tank build.
You should give Paul at ďweep no moreĒ a call. http://www.weepnomorellc.com
He specializes more in repairing leaky fuel tanks but I think he can do anything that you want to a fuel tank. I think the thing to do would be to build the tanks but leave the back bulkhead off. This would allow him to get into the tank and get everything sealed up using his special process. He would then install the rear bulkhead as part of his final assembly. Iím actually going to send my quick build tanks to him as part of a preemptive strike and let him do his thing. He told me that heíll actually remove the rear bulkhead, completely strip everything out of tanks, and re-seal the tanks using his process and then re-installing the rear bulkheads. Itís not a cheap process, but once itís done; itís done!! Paul is a nice guy and and I think itíd be worth a call just to chat with him and then decide what you want to do from there.

Mark
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  #25  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:31 AM
Aluminum Aluminum is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule View Post
Even easier than the seal caps, mix up some of the Type A sealant (I bought mine from www.skygeek.com) and put it into a plastic syringe.
Careful, syringes may come lubricated with silicone which could ruin the seal.

(Also never use syringes to measure paint, primer, etc.)
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  #26  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:58 AM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
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if you get completely plastic syringes (norm ject), then they are fine for "everything". Well, I have yet to find something that they are not compatible with. On the other had if you use them with solvents, then the body can swell overnight and not be good the next day.

It is the ones with the black rubber gasket on the plunger that are horrible. They swell like crazy and the black rubber is probably coated with silicone grease.
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  #27  
Old 05-13-2018, 11:09 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Clip a corner out of a freezer bag and use that as a proseal applicator. A box of 20 of 'em costs <$5 at the local grocery and they are easy to fill.
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  #28  
Old 05-13-2018, 02:32 PM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33 View Post
You should give Paul at ďweep no moreĒ a call. http://www.weepnomorellc.com
He specializes more in repairing leaky fuel tanks but I think he can do anything that you want to a fuel tank. I think the thing to do would be to build the tanks but leave the back bulkhead off. This would allow him to get into the tank and get everything sealed up using his special process. He would then install the rear bulkhead as part of his final assembly. Iím actually going to send my quick build tanks to him as part of a preemptive strike and let him do his thing.

Mark
I spoke with Paul about repairing my QB tanks. I think he quoted me in the neighborhood of $1200/per tank. That's a chunk of change to "repair" tanks that should have been shipped ready to hold fuel. What about sending them to Van's? Someone else posted that they did that for repair.

~Marc
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  #29  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:21 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummit View Post
I spoke with Paul about repairing my QB tanks. I think he quoted me in the neighborhood of $1200/per tank. That's a chunk of change to "repair" tanks that should have been shipped ready to hold fuel. What about sending them to Van's? Someone else posted that they did that for repair.

~Marc
Yeah, youíre right, thatís a chunk of change for a ďrepairĒ. I could just try them as they are and chances are theyíll work just fine, but Iíve been down that road before with leaky tanks and I think Iím just going to bite the bullet and have them re-done and and sealed up properly from the beginning. Iíve seen the inside of the tanks that come with the quick build kit and it ainít pretty. Iím really surprised that more people donít complain about leaky tanks and the lack of quality of the job thatís done in building those things. On top of that, while Paul has them opened up Iím going to have him take out the filler neck and re-seal that as well. Iím also going to have him drill the vent holes larger so that the tanks donít have to burp air while filling them up with fuel. One other thing Iím going to get him to do while heís in there, and thatís to installed the fuel level floats/senders. With the back baffles off itíll be easy to tweak the bends in those things and get them perfectly dialed in. I feel confident that once Paul is finished with them Iíll be able to bolt the tanks on and never have to think about them again. Regarding Vans, and I donít know first hand, but I donít think thereís any warranty against leaking tanks. If someone knows any different please correct me.

Mark
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  #30  
Old 05-13-2018, 03:37 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
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No one mentioned this.
Make up your mind that evey part of the building process will be fun. Be happy as you walk into the factory. Tanks were fun. Sometimes I even open a fuel cap to take a sniff of Proseal.
Yea, sick, but ever since I changed my attitude it's been a lot more fun.
I used the "Fay seal" method. 100% Clekos. Every one had a 4-40 nut for extra tension.
Sealant was applied by popsicle stick and syringe. The huge syringes fit in a caulking gun.
Tanks were pressured to 27 inches and stayed there for two weeks. I called them good at that point.
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I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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