Whole kit or piece-meal?

I am realizing that buying a family plane is infeasible in the short term and also won't be utilized to the extent that buying makes sense. As such, I am debating building an RV-8 for mostly the build project aspect and we can rent as we need for family trips, which have yet to materialize anyway. This will always be the fun, tail-dragger, aero machine I can have fun in, and down the line I can buy an A36 to take trips in as needed. I am wondering if it is financially advantageous to purchase the whole QB kit at once, or if it is the same/marginally more expensive to purchase the kits individually as I go (bundling for freight, etc)? Also, the wife is completely antagonistic against my building an airplane given my career as a future airline pilot and part-time military reservist, in spite of my insistence that this is a project I am willing to spread out over 5 years... She's concerned about how much time it would take me away from the family, while I insist it would be a great project to involve the kids in... anyway, I appreciate any input anyone has for my potential future plans.

V/r
Josh

You will definitely save on shipping if you order it all together. I'm building an RV-7, the difference in me ordering my fuselage kit and finishing kit together vs separately was about $500 in shipping. You also don't have to worry about individual kit prices going up if you order all at once.
The question is storage, do you have space for all of it at once?
As far as the family goes, get them involved in the build!
I know several airline guys that are building, they bid reserve, and depending on the month and their seniority, sometimes get paid to stay home and build the plane. The down side is if you gerenally only get 12-13 days off a month depending on the contract, so that leaves a lot of days you could be actually at work and not at home.

Good Luck!

Take a small first step. Buy a minimalist tool set and a tail kit. Your investment will be small and you can see how the project will impact your family. If it works, great. If not, you sell your kit and tools at a discount and move on.

Yes, you can save money by purchasing and having the entire QB kit delivered at one time. But since only a fraction of people who start a kit actually finish the kit, you're increasing the odds that you're the one who'll take the haircut if you decide building an airplane isn't your thing.

All at one

If you buy it all at once, then I would think about shop space for all those parts. I am building in a 2 car garage and it is getting tight.

Forget it

Sorry, my honest opinion. If you are working 40 hours a week and want to finish in 5 years, there will be little time left for wife and kids. If the kids are young, you will need to watch them carefully if they help build. It will take even longer. If they?re older, they?ll likely lose interest. If the wife is seriously opposed, you get to choose: build an airplane, or stay married.

One kit at a time. If you go QB for both the wings and fuse it makes more sense to buy both of them together. For the 10, there are quite a few customizations that require decisions about what to delete from the kits. I would hate to have to make those choices all at once before even getting a feel for the project. The opportunity costs of the capital are also lost if you lay it all out at once and take 5 years to build. Also, it takes up so much room and mire than likely you will get some hangar rash with all of the stuff sitting around for long periods. My $0.02.

I agree that you can't do a build in 5 years unless your family is highly supportive or you just work part time. Frankly, if your kids are young, they deserve spending time with you rather than you being in the garage on your personal project.

I started building with my oldest when he was 11 and it's been a wonderful bonding activity because he is so enthusiastic and learning so much. Three years in now, he is confident with most tools and can do many tasks himself, and is also a great asset to climb into the tailbone or under the panel. But his younger brothers aren't really interested and sometimes resent being dragged out to the hangar.

If you get an A36, you won't need an RV. I used to fly an A36 but had to sell it when my financial situation changed. I'm nearly done building an RV-7A. I love the 7A and it has nicer avionics and better fuel economy, but it doesn't have the utility of hauling the family around that the A36 offered. I don't think I could fly enough to stay IFR current in both an RV and a Bonanza simultaneously. As long as I have three kids, I would pick the A36 if I could afford to own and maintain it.

First, forget about putting a deadline on yourself. However long you think it'll take, double that. We thought Dad's RV-6 would take 2-3 years; it took about 6. I thought my -7 would take about 5 years; it's looking more like 10 at this point.

Building with kids is hard. I was old enough (and more importantly, interested enough) when Dad was building that I helped a lot, and he would give me tasks to complete while he was on trips (even paying me, depending on the task). I did lots of deburring, dimpling, nutplate installation, etc. while he was at work. But my son is nowhere near ready for that; he's not quite four and currently lacks the attention span and self-discipline/ability to follow directions that would be required just to avoid injury out in the shop, let alone do anything productive.

That said--you can build with a family. But it means you'll probably have to find working time outside your other family activities (e.g., get up early, stay up later, etc.) or build in scheduled times where you work on the airplane, for say an hour at a time or so. If you work a not-9-to-5 job, you might be able to work while the kids are in school. If you have other pursuits (fishing, golf, hunting, etc.) you may have to give some of them up for a while.

You might also consider just buying a flying RV, especially if you have the funds to even consider purchasing a complete QB kit in one go. There are real bargains out there, especially if you're willing to look at an older RV-4 or -6. Building is a lot of boring tedious work and it takes a really long time; unless you really enjoy it (and zen out to a lot of the tasks), really want something truly customized, or you're on a pay-as-you-go plan and don't have the full wad of cash sitting around (or don't want it sitting around in one lump because it'll get spent on other stuff), building might be more trouble. Remember, you can buy a flying airplane and do just about anything you want to it--avionics upgrades, engine changes, etc.--without pounding thousands of rivets and deburring tens of thousands of holes.

FORGET ++

Unsupportive wife, young kids, storage space, tool investment and more likely 10 not 5 years of build time. Add the potential cost & maintenance of an A36 down the road - thinking about saving a few dollars on a $100k build is not what u should be concerned about. I foresee another For Sale post of an unfinished kit for 1/2 of Vans list price.

When I started the 14 I thought it would take 2-3 years. Then at the 3 year point I thought it would be another year. It was about 5 years from first kit to flying. I didn't get quick builds though. I think the quick build would have cut 2-3 years off my project. But I wouldn't have the skills I have now.

I always had a job for a kid that wanted one. I think that's the trick. There are things to clean, things to sort, things to inventory. If they wandered off that was fine too. What finishes the plane is persistence. Even if you have to stop for a few months the plane doesn't care. 8-10 year projects are common from what I've seen. One guy I knew started a 4, quit to build a biplane, and then came back to the 4.

If anyone wants to hang out that's cool. Yes it shows you down but it makes it more fun.

If my wife hated my hobby it would be hard though......

Given your wife's opposition, it seems to me that there are a couple alternatives. The first is to somehow get her to change her mind so that she's enthusiastic (willing isn't enough) about it. The second, and the one I'd recommend, is to forget about it.

Frankly, given the total cost of the project, it doesn't matter whether the parts are shipped together or separately. It's small potatoes.

Storage space is very important. Don't forget that your wife's car needs some garage space too, and that has priority. If you have a shop full of QB parts while you're building a tail, you'll both be inconvenienced. And storing a QB fuselage while you're working on the QB wings is still going to be a hit.

Perhaps it would be worth considering an older certified airplane for now. See if the family really will go on trips with you. If they will, then you're building the case for the eventual Beechcraft. If not, then you're building the case for the RV. Older 182s aren't that expensive, they hold their value, such as it is, and they have acceptable performance.

Dave

You need to listen to your wife on this one.

Go find a good used RV-4 or RV-8 to get into an RV. Spend your spare time flying & maintaining rather than building.

If you do decide to build, just buy the tail kit and see how it goes.

Thanks all. I think I have my answer, generally. If anything, the shipping costs are a drop in the bucket and not worth saving over buying a tail kit to see if this is even feasible or if I'll end up with a kit I'll never finish. I am a driven SOB, so no matter how long it takes me, I do finish what I start. So at the very least, I think we'll look to buy something now, buy a tail kit and see how the shop time works into family time (or not), and if it works, I'll buy the rest of the kits down the line (once I finish the tail) and have more space/money to do the rest. I appreciate all the honest feedback!

I had similar concerns and decided to take an even smaller first step. I started with the practice kits (toolbox and aileron) which allowed me to acquire both tools and some skill at a low investment.

Then I ordered the plans on the USB stick ($10) and studied those hard. I made a list of the parts that I needed just to build the first part (vertical stabilizer), and ordered just those from the Van's website.

After I mostly finished the VS, I did the same thing and ordered enough parts for the rudder, and then finally pulled the trigger on the whole emp kit while at Oshkosh. Van's let me exclude the parts that I already had from the order and not pay for those twice.

As others have pointed out, you'll pay more in shipping this way, but to me it was worth it to keep the commitment and investment low upfront while I "got my feet wet"-- and it gave me an exit ramp in case I decided that I hated it, didn't have the time or family support etc. etc..

In my case it worked out, but everyone is different.

You have everything going against you, especially by having an non-supporting spouse. The time and financial commitment to build a $100,000 + airplane can easily break the family.

BobTurner said:

Sorry, my honest opinion. If you are working 40 hours a week and want to finish in 5 years, there will be little time left for wife and kids. If the kids are young, you will need to watch them carefully if they help build. It will take even longer. If they?re older, they?ll likely lose interest. If the wife is seriously opposed, you get to choose: build an airplane, or stay married.

Click to expand...

X 1000

Your life away as an airline pilot plus military!?
Your kids are older most likely and have their life....
Wife ain?t on board...
You?ll end up losing everything except the broken rivet squeezer...and have to still make mortgage payments.

R

Hard Truth

There is a lot of hard truth in this thread.

My wife is supportive and helps with Cleco pulling, match drilling and dimpling and there are times when I want to work on the kit and she wants to have an evening with me.

Also as I?m not wealthy we?ve had to economize on some disposable income items to keep the project on track. If your wife is not 110% on board with the commitment it will not be an enjoyable time when you want to buy items for the airplane and she wants a bathroom remodel (I have first hand knowledge on this one)

Go for it!

My experience was a positive one! My wife was somewhere in the middle. She was supportive but a bit antagonistic when she saw the bills. So she just didn't see many of those! She would help when I really needed her little hands but I really had to make the shop/garage comfortable for her.

I had kids and foreign exchange students during my build, but it was mostly a solo effort along with help from my father. I have their signatures all over the interior of my airplane, behind access panels, inside wings, etc. Makes me smile every time I spot one when inspecting this or that and they're quite proud that they helped build a plane!

Also, my work schedule had me off of work during the week when the kids and wife were at school/work giving me big chunks of time where I wasn't missing out on family stuff.

That said, my financial situation mandated that I slow built one kit at a time. I'm glad I went that route.

It was an enjoyable 6 years to build my RV7 and I'd do it all the same if I were to do it all over again.