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Gas Tanks

cwharris

Active Member
If I wanted to get my gas tanks professionally built and tested who could I call and how much does someone usually charge?
 
Call my buddy, Ray Lawrence in Sandersville, Ga. He's built tanks for all models, including a -14. 478 232 9560.

Best,
 
I spoke to Ray a while back, and he seemed to really know what he was doing...

I am working on the leading edges now, and am staring at my winter project which will be the tanks. Still on the fence if I am going to take a shot at it myself or not. Leaning towards doing it myself, sort of a rite of passage.
 
I spoke to Ray a while back, and he seemed to really know what he was doing...
I am working on the leading edges now, and am staring at my winter project which will be the tanks. Still on the fence if I am going to take a shot at it myself or not. Leaning towards doing it myself, sort of a rite of passage.

If you're thinking about doing it, then DO IT! It's not that bad.
 
It's not that bad?

If you're thinking about doing it, then DO IT! It's not that bad.

Mel, you lie! :) Some people do have the opinion that it is not a big deal, but it's a pain. After having done all of the wings and the empennage, it is that bad. You will have black "stuff" everywhere. It will be all over your tools, clothes, ground, benches, clecos, etc. It's very tedious dipping every rivet in the proseal, then trying to get it off your glove into the hole, then take your nice rivet gun and get black stuff all over it. Proseal never really goes where you want it, it goes everywhere. I had someone help me that was a pro and without him, I probably would have had a bunch of leaks. His name is Dennis Millsap, retired military. He also helped me get all of my trailing edges perfectly straight. If you decide to do the tanks, take a week off work and do all the trailing edges at the same time since you will be mixing up the proseal and getting it everywhere. My vote is have it done or get professional help. If I build another plane one day, I am having Mel come help me, because he must know something I don't know.
 
I am just working on the RV14 tanks now. I use a lot of electrical tape to mask the inside of the tank and that really helps with the mess.
I am using the caulking tubes this time and they really work much better then the old quart can method. I am estimating 6 or 7 tubes for both tanks.

It really is not that bad a job and the actual pro seal/riveting work is going to take about six sessions, one for each caulking tube. These sessions are about 3 to 4 hours long. I work alone on this job and I am not sure that if you know how to rivet, having extra hands in the way are going to help much.

That works out to about 25 hours of actual riveting. Save some money and do it yourself.
 
I'm in the middle of it and it's really not that bad. Remember when you were a child and were playing in the mud? Like that but with an airplane involved.

Dave
 
It's very tedious dipping every rivet in the proseal, then trying to get it off your glove into the hole,

Then don't dip the rivets ;) Just use a toothpick to put a dab of sealant in the hole, then insert the rivet. You get messy, but at least it's easier to handle the rivets that way.
 
Like getting in cold water

2m49jz5.jpg


Been looking at this for 3 evenings. Hesitant to jump in.
 
I'm in the middle of it and it's really not that bad. Remember when you were a child and were playing in the mud? Like that but with an airplane involved.

Dave

Mud washes out of your clothes. ProSeal is there for life!
 
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Out of curiosity, why even use wet wing tanks anymore? I guess there must be some advantage to doing so but why not a form fitting plastic container of some kind with replacement access built in? It seems to me that wet wings are doomed to leak at some point.
 
Wet wings are the lightest way to build a fuel tank, since the wing structure will be there anyway. To add a plastic tank or bladder or other type of non-integral tank will not only weight more, but will require the removal of structure as well, making the wing weaker.
 
Out of curiosity, why even use wet wing tanks anymore? I guess there must be some advantage to doing so but why not a form fitting plastic container of some kind with replacement access built in? It seems to me that wet wings are doomed to leak at some point.

Not sure why you say that. Mine are over 21 years old and haven't leaked yet.
 
I have worked on lots of 45+ year old jets that have wet wings. 99% of the very few leaks they develop are maintenance induced by improper preparation and sealant application where structural work has been performed.
 
Why anyone would consider assembling their tanks without using a Semco gun is beyond me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Semco-250A-...823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad9a7159f

$60 for the gun and maybe another $30-40 for cartridges and tips. You can reuse the tips and cartridge after the sealant fully cures. Just put a nail into the back end of the tip after removal so you can pull out the sealant. and push out the black part from the cartridge so it does not set up in the white part.

No mess, easy to apply sealant where you want it and how much you want.

Also consider Faye Sealing as per the following thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7602&highlight=proseal+channel

I bet that you would get 80 % resale value.

cheers
ken
 
Anyone looking to unload their Semco equipment?

Ken and anyone else reading this:

If anyone has completed their tanks and would like to save the eBay fees please contact me. I am interested in purchasing a Semco gun and accessories from someone who no longer has a use for it.
 
Tank rivets sitting proud

Half way thru riveting my right tank. I didn't use tank dies resulting in non flush rivets due to the proseal. I am not building a show plane, but I wonder how noticeable this will be after paint. Should I spring for tank dies and redimple the left tank, or can this be minimized in the paint phase?
 
Fuel tanks

Half way thru riveting my right tank. I didn't use tank dies resulting in non flush rivets due to the proseal. I am not building a show plane, but I wonder how noticeable this will be after paint. Should I spring for tank dies and redimple the left tank, or can this be minimized in the paint phase?

I'm pretty sure Van's will tell you they didn't use tank dies, but the same ones on all the skins. I did and mine are fine, but not sure that's why.
 
I'm pretty sure Van's will tell you they didn't use tank dies, but the same ones on all the skins.

That is correct, but we also do the unthinkable and remove most of the sealant from within the dimples before inserting the rivets so they don't sit above the skin surface.
 
Half way thru riveting my right tank. I didn't use tank dies resulting in non flush rivets due to the proseal. I am not building a show plane, but I wonder how noticeable this will be after paint. Should I spring for tank dies and redimple the left tank, or can this be minimized in the paint phase?

You can get a shaver bit for your countersink tool. I did that on some rivets throughout the whole project. Sometimes no matter how careful you are some rivets come out a little tall.

Bird
 
bird--do you have a source for a shaver bit? I assume this just knocks a bit off the top of the rivets so they end up flush

thanks
ken
 
Avery Tools carry them I think. I never had good success using one. I found they chatter.

Rivet shaver cutters are designed to be used in a rivet shaver. A rivet shaver has a high speed air motor mounted in a pistol grip type housing with a micrometer cage that surrounds the cutter to allow cutting depth adjustment. Rivet shavers are an awesome tool to have in the tool box. Just be careful to back off the depth adjustment at first and dial it in a click at a time until you get the desired result.
 
I'm currently a full-time A&P student in Tucson and the shaver we use spins at about 29,000 rpm but may be overkill for smaller rivets. I've used the Avery cage and shaver bit for my previous RV 6 and 7 projects and it worked fine but be very conservative in lowering the bit and keep the unit very stable.
 
I'm pretty sure Van's will tell you they didn't use tank dies, but the same ones on all the skins. I did and mine are fine, but not sure that's why.

That is correct, but we also do the unthinkable and remove most of the sealant from within the dimples before inserting the rivets so they don't sit above the skin surface.

Repeated...because it is worth repeating.
 
define high speed.

Can you use a drill with a normal microstop?

Not exactly sure what RPM the one I have turns, but it is somewhere around 30,000 RPM.

Also worth noting is the shaver bit with two cutting flutes/blades is normally used for aluminum rivets. Shaver bits that have a face with multiple cutting surfaces that looks similar to a file are normally used on steel or Monel rivets.
 
Repeated...because it is worth repeating.

Are you opposed to using tank dies? I will be dimpling my tank skins today and have a set of Avery tank dies, but not sure if I want to use them. I was planning on making test samples out of scrap metal first.
 
well I can say this now, since my second tank does not appear to be leaking. (Did the balloon test with Snoop test of all rivets and seams and no leaks). Anyway, so far I think that the construction of the fuel tanks was the most fun so far of the wings build. I would build the tanks again.

The only nerve wracking part is not knowing if the tanks will be sealed in the end. so this would be a different story if the tanks leaked.
 
Congratulations Ken! I am a few days away from riveting my tanks together, I think they have fun to build as well:D
 
Should I spring for tank dies and redimple the left tank, or can this be minimized in the paint phase?

My original RV7 wings were built by me without tank dies. I also have a set of RV8 QB wings here from Vans that were built without tank dies. I have just done another set of tanks - this time I used Cleaveland Tank Dies.

I won't be using them on another tank. I found the rivets move around more as there is less material under the head. They still sit proud if there is too much sealant under the head or on the set - no different to the standard dies. The tanks done with standard dies look a lot better.

Someone might be able to get these to work better than me. On the other hand, if they worked Vans might recommend them....
 
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