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New style fuel pump failure
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ArlingtonRV
Well Known Member
I Heard It Through The Grapevine
When I called LEAF to order mine the lady I was tallking to told me that she had recently sold one to someone that replaced the old style as a precaution and promptly had the new one fail. That is the only one I have heard of.
When I called LEAF to order mine the lady I was tallking to told me that she had recently sold one to someone that replaced the old style as a precaution and promptly had the new one fail. That is the only one I have heard of.
I was on the phone with a sales person from Lockwood and asked about ordering a new style fuel pump, like others, as a precaution. She asked if I was having any problems with the current pump and I said "no" because I haven't even run the engine yet. She was very adamont about not messing with the fuel pump unless there was problem.
If it isn't broke don't fix-it. I have caused myself some problems in the past "fixing things" which were not broken. I convinced myself it was under the pre-text of preventive maintenance. Anyway this is what the Lockwook rep strongly suggested.
As a side note, a friend who has been fly a Kitfox with a 912 for many years still has the "old style" fuel pump and no problems. Lot of hours.
If it isn't broke don't fix-it. I have caused myself some problems in the past "fixing things" which were not broken. I convinced myself it was under the pre-text of preventive maintenance. Anyway this is what the Lockwook rep strongly suggested.
As a side note, a friend who has been fly a Kitfox with a 912 for many years still has the "old style" fuel pump and no problems. Lot of hours.
ArlingtonRV
Well Known Member
I bought the new one strictly to have on hand if/when the old one fails. I have 200 hours on the old one now and it works fine with no signs of trouble. I just wanted a spare on hand so if it does fail I don't have to be down while I find one. As airplane parts go it is pretty inexpensive, so I figured why not. If I don't need it, even better.
MacPara
Well Known Member
I flew a RANS S-12S with a 912S for a while. When I sold it in August last year, the engine had over 400 hours on it, the engine was around 10 years old and had the original fuel pump on it. Absolutely no problems with it. I am sure I would still be flying it with that old pump today if I didn't need the money for buying the Engine Kit for the RV-12.
Whoever that lady at Lockwood is, I do agree with her. Leave it alone, if it doesn't show a problem.
Whoever that lady at Lockwood is, I do agree with her. Leave it alone, if it doesn't show a problem.
I wouldn't panic - -
but I think the new style offers a little more safety. The old style, whether it leaked oil or gas, would drip right from the pump. The new design takes either possible leak to whereever you direct the drain hose to. I had a failure of the original pump, but decided not to wait again. I ran a 1/4" fuel line back and tied to the oil tank vent hose. If anything leaks, should be able to see it there without removing the top cowl. They had a roughly 1/2 price deal on the new style pump. Not sure now, but it made it reasonable to do.
John Bender
but I think the new style offers a little more safety. The old style, whether it leaked oil or gas, would drip right from the pump. The new design takes either possible leak to whereever you direct the drain hose to. I had a failure of the original pump, but decided not to wait again. I ran a 1/4" fuel line back and tied to the oil tank vent hose. If anything leaks, should be able to see it there without removing the top cowl. They had a roughly 1/2 price deal on the new style pump. Not sure now, but it made it reasonable to do.
John Bender
ScottSchmidt
Well Known Member
Still a problem
Sounds like they definitely have a problem.
How many people are talking about their Lycoming fuel pumps failing?? Almost Zero. I have never heard of one failing, they typically make it to the overhaul point.
I had the same experience, when I called to order the new one they talked me out of it like it was a user problem more than a real manufacturing or design problem. Since it sounds like both old ones and new ones are failing, what is the problem with the design?
What are the experiences of everyone when it fails and fuel is being supplied by the electric fuel pump?
Sounds like they definitely have a problem.
How many people are talking about their Lycoming fuel pumps failing?? Almost Zero. I have never heard of one failing, they typically make it to the overhaul point.
I had the same experience, when I called to order the new one they talked me out of it like it was a user problem more than a real manufacturing or design problem. Since it sounds like both old ones and new ones are failing, what is the problem with the design?
What are the experiences of everyone when it fails and fuel is being supplied by the electric fuel pump?
Jetguy
Well Known Member
Whoa Hold the Boat!
OK, at this point we cant really make any logical deductions about the new pump. One was reported that it failed, but don't know any info on why it failed. All the info on that one is second hand knowledge from a person who sits behind a desk. It could have been dropped on the floor of the hanger as it was being removed from its packaging for all we know. We have not heard from any RV12 owners on this form that a new pump has failed. Until then the vote is still out on the new pump!
However we have had many documented failures of the old pump.
Only the Facts on the old pump:
1. Some last longer than others.
2. When failed they sometimes leak fuel.
3. When failed the engine keeps running
4. When failed the engine will not develop full power and runs ruff.
5. When failed no fires have occurred yet.
6. When failing the fuel flow goes way up and the fuel pressure goes down.
7. Rotax came out with a new pump which indicates by deduction that they probably had problems with the old pump.
8. At one point Rotax quietly offered a half price deal on the new pump if you wanted to buy one and send in your old pump. But for some reason the guys on the RV12 form who found out about this top secret unadvertised deal didn't feel it necessary to let all the other RV12 form members know about it.
9. Now that half price deal is gone.
Last but not least, please dont take a cheap shot comparison that my different manufacture engine is better that your Rotax engine. If you think so then start a new thread and we will flame each other endlessly by comparing Service bulletins about cylinders and crankshafts, etc, etc. It is what it is. If you dont like dont buy it.
OK, at this point we cant really make any logical deductions about the new pump. One was reported that it failed, but don't know any info on why it failed. All the info on that one is second hand knowledge from a person who sits behind a desk. It could have been dropped on the floor of the hanger as it was being removed from its packaging for all we know. We have not heard from any RV12 owners on this form that a new pump has failed. Until then the vote is still out on the new pump!
However we have had many documented failures of the old pump.
Only the Facts on the old pump:
1. Some last longer than others.
2. When failed they sometimes leak fuel.
3. When failed the engine keeps running
4. When failed the engine will not develop full power and runs ruff.
5. When failed no fires have occurred yet.
6. When failing the fuel flow goes way up and the fuel pressure goes down.
7. Rotax came out with a new pump which indicates by deduction that they probably had problems with the old pump.
8. At one point Rotax quietly offered a half price deal on the new pump if you wanted to buy one and send in your old pump. But for some reason the guys on the RV12 form who found out about this top secret unadvertised deal didn't feel it necessary to let all the other RV12 form members know about it.
9. Now that half price deal is gone.
Last but not least, please dont take a cheap shot comparison that my different manufacture engine is better that your Rotax engine. If you think so then start a new thread and we will flame each other endlessly by comparing Service bulletins about cylinders and crankshafts, etc, etc.
It is what it is. If you dont like dont buy it.
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New Thread
Thanks for the replies guys. I wonder if it would be a good idea to get a polling of how many fuel pumps have failed since the first flight of the 12. What do ya'll think about starting a new thread on pump failure. Essentially the data would consist of engine hours vs pump failure(s) vs type fuel. Any thoughts.
Gary Eldridge
Thanks for the replies guys. I wonder if it would be a good idea to get a polling of how many fuel pumps have failed since the first flight of the 12. What do ya'll think about starting a new thread on pump failure. Essentially the data would consist of engine hours vs pump failure(s) vs type fuel. Any thoughts.
Gary Eldridge
Thanks for the info. Peterk I just replaced mine with the new pump today and found the Banjo orifice plugged with debris created during the last pump failure. I just posted a heads up about it.
Im suprised Rotax hasn't done a recall on the pumps. Like some one else posted -"How often do your hear about a pump failing on a Lycoming"
Gary Eldridge
Im suprised Rotax hasn't done a recall on the pumps.
Like some one else posted -"How often do your hear about a pump failing on a Lycoming"Gary Eldridge
dick seiders
Well Known Member
This is one of those things one doesn't want to say so as to not invite a failure of the pump. I have only 105 hrs on my 12, and no problems. I am with the Lockwood lady on this issue. Don't mess with what is working.
Dick Seiders
Dick Seiders
Geico266
Well Known Member
256 hours on the original pump, and I have a switch on the electric pump to shut it off during flight and on the ground.
My old-style pump failed at about 25 hours on climb-out. Low pressure, high flow rate. No leak stains, hence no warrantee. Engine continued to run strong, but Dynon alarms scared my wife half to death and definitely increased my pucker factor for the rest of the trip. New pump works great, and if it does leak, the fuel is dumped overboard instead of on the muffler. Well worth the investment for peace of mind, in my book. JMHO!
Yes it does need the latest D-180 update for the Kavlico or you won't be able to select it as a fuel sensor. When I installed mine, the needle jumped all over the place. A 330uf capacitor took care of it and now it is a solid 4.7psi. Dynon knows about it and will no doubt include the effect in their next 180 update.
Pete
