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RV's at U.S. National Aerobatic Championships (OFFA 70+)

I was talking with Mark Fullerton while at the Nationals. Mark is with IAC Chapter 3 and they host contests at Rome, Georgia. He would like to hold a clinic for aerobatic competition beginners sometime in the near future. It would probably would be a weekend affair that would include a ground school and lots of coaching from the "experts". I would like to solicit suggestions/comments from those of you who have been following this thread. What would you like to see or hear? When is the best time to hold the event, etc? Once we sort out the details I'll start a new thread and gauge the level of interest from RV pilots.

sent you a PM
 
I was talking with Mark Fullerton while at the Nationals. Mark is with IAC Chapter 3 and they host contests at Rome, Georgia. He would like to hold a clinic for aerobatic competition beginners sometime in the near future. It would probably would be a weekend affair that would include a ground school and lots of coaching from the "experts". I would like to solicit suggestions/comments from those of you who have been following this thread. What would you like to see or hear? When is the best time to hold the event, etc? Once we sort out the details I'll start a new thread and gauge the level of interest from RV pilots.

PM Sent with more words...
 
I was talking with Mark Fullerton while at the Nationals. Mark is with IAC Chapter 3 and they host contests at Rome, Georgia. He would like to hold a clinic for aerobatic competition beginners sometime in the near future. It would probably would be a weekend affair that would include a ground school and lots of coaching from the "experts". I would like to solicit suggestions/comments from those of you who have been following this thread. What would you like to see or hear? When is the best time to hold the event, etc? Once we sort out the details I'll start a new thread and gauge the level of interest from RV pilots.

Ron,

I think this an excellent idea!

I think the best time to hold the event is early spring, in March before people get busy with Sun-n-Fun and other fly-ins. Also this would give people the best opportunity to attend local upcoming competitions.

Some of the topics to cover would be:

1. The preparing for an event checklist.
2. How the competition works/flows. How it's laid out. What to expect.
3. Capabilities of the pilot and the airplane.
4. FARs
5. Selected topics of the IAC rule book
6. A quick primer on Aresti figures
7. How to fly some of the figures as they relate to an RV

I think the intention of the would be clinic is to help people that are already doing aerobatics and introduce the possibility of competition, correct? I think we would have to be careful about people that are not qualified in performing aerobatics and having them go out and perform aerobatics on their own based on what is seen during the clinic. My understanding is that this would not be an aerobatic training program. It would have to be clear to non-aerobatic pilots to get instruction from a competent aerobatic instructor.

I think the idea of a social fly-in with an aerobatic "spin" (pun intended!) is an excellent one. It could get a lot of folks introduced to aerobatic competition that would otherwise shy away from an IAC event.

Great job!
 
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It's not completely making up for it but...

Hi RVers,
I haven't posted on the board for a while, but Ron and Bill did a great job documenting nationals...and Bill was correct when he said "I had one of those moments" during my first flight. I'm attempting to attach some of my pictures to this post.
Regardless, my 9 year-old son and I made our way out to Lamar, CO for the Rocky Mountain Invitational this weekend, and wouldn't you know we snagged 1st place of 9 sportsman pilots. An amazing weekend all around between having my son (aka my new crew chief), great people, great weather and a great result.
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and 2nd in the regional series !!!!!!!!!!

Way to go Patric, and they updated the regional IAC series standings (highest average of 3 contests in a region) and you're in 2nd place. This is looking like the year of the RVs.:)
 
1st for Willy!

And 1st for the regional series for you!

A handful more RVs getting started and we can really have a movement here

Cheers,
Balls
 
Congratulations Patric!!! Awesome job. It was great meeting you at Nationals and I'm looking forward to seeing you, Ron, and Bill at future competitions. Take care!
 
Age Discrimination

I don't understand this over-the-top focus on age. I think Bill is taking advantage of his opponents "youth and inexperience" to bamboozle the judges. Combine that with his nearly kamikaze instance on manning nearly every boundary judge position during a contest and he's really pushing the boundaries of gentlemanly contestation. He volunteers to excess and gets tons of sympathy from the judges. Heck, if I volunteered as much as he does, I'd probably win every contest just because I'm better looking!

Now don't get me wrong, I like Bill. But I swear to you, I think he takes a hammer to that RV-4, tears off the corners of all the decals, throws on a little spare duck tape, and the hobbles on board for his flights, ALL TO GET a sympathy vote. And, frankly, I'm tired of it!

Bill, if you want to really own all that metal around your neck and those trophies on your shelfs, you have to quit playing the age card. Just because you have twenty years on me doesn't mean you should get better scores! Dammit, I'm trying to fly a great sequence but you've got that cool, highly modified RV-? (should it really be called an RV?) airplane that can do three times the roll rate of my stock RV-4. Then, you installed that cool hand-hold above the canopy! That has to give you another two or three seconds on the downline before you reach Vne. Oh yeah, and have you seen the special aerobatic eyeglasses that Wiley Eyeball wears? Developed over many years in the high-tech labs of the military-industrial complex, and available only to insiders like Bill, they clearly (pun intended) give him an unfair advantage. Again, Bill, are you really comfortable taking all these backstabbing routes to winning and pushing the rest of your fellow competitors down the standings?

This whole, "I'm an old guy just flopping around the sky, Huh, Huh, Huh," is getting really old!

Come on Bill. Quit Trumping us. Give the rest of a fighting chance!
 
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better looking, huh?

Randy,
Enjoyed the sarcasm and whining, and as you can see there is a bit of rivalry among us RV aerobatic competitors in a good way. Ron and I will give you a chance at Sebring since I think we?ve had enough competition in one year already. I see you, Jerry, and Curt have already preregistered, and possibly Mark will sign up too, so you?ll have plenty of competition from just the RVs. It would really break my heart if you let an Extra 300, or a Pitts S1S, or that aerobatic instructor pilot flying a Decathlon score higher than an RV. I think you are correct about the judges feeling sorry for a poor old man. I received some feedback from the judges when they say you do your first hammer head, and the engine quit, and was spewing oil. When the recorder asked what was the score?, one judge said give him an 8.0 for guts, surviving, and getting the engine restarted. Another judge said give him a 6-not sure we want to encourage this young fellow to continue competition. By the way, I didn?t mind finishing 2nd in the Nationals and seeing the plaque in the ladies room. The old buzzard award achieved in an RV will still be the highlight of my fading aerobatic memories. As I stated in the video clip, old men shouldn?t be having this much fun. By the way Randy, if you finish first at Sebring, DR will put you on the Home page.:rolleyes:
Bill McLean
RV-4
Slider
Lower AL
 
For you RV flyers that have any interest in aerobatics as you may know there is a IAC contest Nov. 3-5th in Sebring, FL. Looks like at least three RV will be competing this contest. I will not be competing but will probably fly down to watch and encourage those that are. (Randy really needs some help getting over this age thing)
Easy enough to fly in and watch. Aerobatic box is NW of the field and announced on the AWOS with modified runway patterns. You can taxi right over to the group and park for a while and talk with the competitors. Airport even has a nice restaurant for breakfast or lunch.
Hope to see you there.
 
Great write up and excellent job guys! I'm just a noobie, but all this is very inspirational and I hope to become decent enough to start competing in primary next year. I only wish there were other RVr's in my area who are interested in aerobatics to practice with. Right now I'm just practicing with an instructor, but it's getting expensive!!
 
Right now I'm just practicing with an instructor, but it's getting expensive!!

If you're safe and comfortable doing loops, rolls, and spins on your own, I'd suggest ditching the instructor and hooking up with your nearest IACers for some ground coaching/critiquing if you have competition interests. Unless your instructor has significant competition experience and knows exactly how to fly YOUR airplane such that the figures look good from the ground, you're not going to make large gains by continuing to fly with an instructor. But again, if you're still at the stage of simply getting safe and comfortable for solo acro, by all means stay with your instructor as long as it takes. Just keep in mind that dual instruction only goes so far. I can't overstate the value of good ground coaching/critiquing.
 
If you're safe and comfortable doing loops, rolls, and spins on your own, I'd suggest ditching the instructor and hooking up with your nearest IACers for some ground coaching/critiquing if you have competition interests. Unless your instructor has significant competition experience and knows exactly how to fly YOUR airplane such that the figures look good from the ground, you're not going to make large gains by continuing to fly with an instructor. But again, if you're still at the stage of simply getting safe and comfortable for solo acro, by all means stay with your instructor as long as it takes. Just keep in mind that dual instruction only goes so far. I can't overstate the value of good ground coaching/critiquing.

Yes, I feel the same way, which is why I've been trying to find another RVr to practice with, but so far no luck. I am very comfortable with loops, rolls, spins, half cuban 8's, etc. (comfortable does not necessarily mean good/ precise/ competition material). The instructor is Bill Cornick, who's an airshow pilot and long time unlimited IAC competitor, but he admits that he does not know my plane at all. I asked him to demonstrate the primary sequence, and he didn't do so well (from the back seat of my -4). He then let me do it with him coaching, which worked out better. But still, I feel like I have a very long ways to go to get good and really want to meet up with other IAC pilots in my area. I emailed the local chapter, but didn't get a very enthusiastic response from the guy who replied. Can't remember his name or position in the club...
 
Yes, I feel the same way, which is why I've been trying to find another RVr to practice with, but so far no luck. I am very comfortable with loops, rolls, spins, half cuban 8's, etc. (comfortable does not necessarily mean good/ precise/ competition material). The instructor is Bill Cornick, who's an airshow pilot and long time unlimited IAC competitor, but he admits that he does not know my plane at all. I asked him to demonstrate the primary sequence, and he didn't do so well (from the back seat of my -4). He then let me do it with him coaching, which worked out better. But still, I feel like I have a very long ways to go to get good and really want to meet up with other IAC pilots in my area. I emailed the local chapter, but didn't get a very enthusiastic response from the guy who replied. Can't remember his name or position in the club...


Brian,

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble getting help. It shouldn't be that way. Please PM me with your email address and phone number and I will have an enthusiastic IAC instructor get in touch with you.
 
Yes, I feel the same way, which is why I've been trying to find another RVr to practice with, but so far no luck.

You don't need another RVer, just some experienced folks to help you. The aircraft type doesn't matter. There's a wide range of a/c types that compete, and ground critiquing/judging basics apply to all. Sorry you got a short response. But I think Ron will have luck hooking you up with the right folks. In my experience, the majority of folks in this sport are happy to help others get started. But of course I do hope you find (and even recruit) some other west coast RVers. Good luck.
 
No passengers for acro in RV4

Brian,
Please don't do acro with a passenger in the RV-4. The aft CG and weight (with parachute) will be exceeded. One of the few accidents with acro with a passenger in an RV-4 occurred in Australia, and the tail came off. The pitch becomes very light and sensitive, and when you pull the stick, the angle of attack has a slight lag, then increases quickly (more Gs) without any change in stick position as the weight of the passenger pushes down. I learned this early when I acquire my RV. As Eric said, find another airplane for dual instruction, and fly the maneuvers solo in your RV when you're comfortable. Best of luck in finding someone to get you involved in an IAC chapter. Lots of fun with an amazing group once you get started.
Bill McLean
RV-4 Slider
lower AL
 
Aerobatic Clinic

This thread has generated a lot of interest (7100 views and 68 replies) so there must be some interest in aerobatic competition among the RV community. I invite all who are on the verge of stepping up to the plate to consider attending an RV Aerobatic Clinic to be held this Spring. More information HERE.
 
Thanks for everyone's responses. Ron, I PM'd you. As for the CG, I'm very careful not to exceed the CG limit. My plane was very nose heavy - flying solo, I was at the very forward limit! I just switched out my metal Sensenich for a Sterba and saved 20lbs off the nose which moved the CG back by 1", but still nose heavy. I have not flown with my instructor after the new prop, but before, my W/B was within aerobatic limits (about 1" of the aft limit). Would you advise against doing aerobatics with a passenger, even if I was within the CG limits?? When I fly by myself, I use balast weight in the tail b/c I really don't like the feel of a nose heavy plane.
 
my RV-4 weight and balance for aerobatics

The weight and balance will be different for each aircraft. The RV-4 aerobatic weight and C.G. limits according to Van are 1375 lbs, and 75.9 inches aft. My RV empty weight and C.G. are 1011 lbs and 71.35 inches aft. With 16 gallons of fuel (my minimum for aerobatic practice), a 172 lb pilot, and 20 lb chute, the weight is 1301 lbs and C.G. 72.9 inches aft. That leaves 74 lbs for the passenger, including chute for aerobatic gross weight and C.G. 74.7 inches aft. With a 154 lb pilot and 20 lb chute, the weight is 1475 lbs (100 lbs over aerobatic weight limit), and C.G. 76.9 inches (1 inch beyond limit). The other reason besides the very light stick pressure, weight and C.G. issues is I don't like barf on the back of my neck.:eek: Hope this helps,
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL
 
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