Dynon Skyview missing features

I have been going back an forth as to which EFIS to purchase for my RV-10.
My top 3 contenders are AFS, Dynon, and Garmin. Not looking for a flame war, or XXX does YYY. These are the ones I have put on my short list. From my research, AFS and Garmin seem to do it all, and Dynon is a little behind, but less expenive. In the thread today about the new ADS-B I saw that currently Skyveiw does not have logging that is available to the user. I would really like to be able to compare engine performance data for every trip to be able to spot trends etc. and though that during flight testing the data would be great to not have to record as you were testing.

So my question is what features are missing from the skyview that you would like (especially if AFS/G3X have them).

The ones I know are:
IFR Plates
Vertical Guidance
Sectionals
Highway in the Sky
User accessable Data Logging

Of these, the plates and sectionals I don't really care about as I love using the iPad for these and will have it panel mounted as well. The vertical AP does not bother me much as I have never flown with any autopilot.
I am a data-freak, and was very much looking forward to the data-analysis, so was very dissapointed to learn it was not accessable.

So again are there other "missing" features from the skyview that are not the major checklist items, but still nice-to-haves?

I see you still have a bit of time left on your project, and Datalogging is basically our next highest priority after weather, so there's a good chance SkyView will have this before your first flight.

You do already have the ability with SkyView to log data to an external PC or other serial datalogger, that is in the software today.

--Ian, Dynon Avionics

I, too, am bummed that the Skyview doesn't have a user friendly data logging system. I think they have said it is a high priority for them, so hopefully they will have it soon. I just started my flight test program and data logging would be very nice to have, so soon isn't soon enough for me!

Data Logging

Yes I am just about to start wiring (doors finished last night), so I really want to chose what I am going to install at OSH. I expect my first flight about a year from now as I put in 1100 hr in the last 12 months. The big thing is after reading just about every blog and manufactures website, in none of them did I notice that Skyview did not do data-logging. So my question to people using them is are there any other features that are not the big obvious limitations.

And by no means am I trying to make an Anti-Skyview thread, just trying to figure the EFIS choice out.

Bill

I've been flying behind the Skyview for about a year now. All I can say is that it is an incredible system. Yes they need to get data logging. That was my second request behind weather. Looks like weather is coming this fall Skyview offered me the best value for my money and the menu system was very intuitive. My 15 year old daughter can operate it without any assistance. Try all three out at OSH and see which one best fits your mission. Good luck.

I'm in the same position you are in that I am at the point where it's time to build my panel. But, I've already purchased dynon's servos and AOA heated pitot. With that said, I'm going to make my decision at Oshkosh and purchase the system I intend to install. Honestly, I'm leaning towards Garmin and sending my Dynon gear back to Aircraft Spruce or selling it here. I'm not going to make the decision until after Oshkosh though because I want to put my fingers on the various systems and I want to see what each company unveils.

My current worries with Dynon came after going back and reading what they've promised in here and how long ago they promised it. XM weather has been a huge priority of theirs for a long time...lots of 'coming soon' assurances. That's a trend that concerns me. GRT, MGL, AFS, Garmin Etc have had weather for how long now? XM weather isn't a new technology, neither is data logging. There is no wheel to invent here. Dynon is way late to the party and in the tech world that's a real concern.

Having said all of that, I'll say this. I like the look of the skyview and clearly ive bought into the 'soon' promises, as I have a couple thousand in dynon gear on my bench. But, no radio, no xm weather, no data logging, no checklists, and autopilot is hampered compared to the competition etc all to save $2k compared to a much more capable Garmin system? I can't believe I'm about to say this, but what's 2k when it comes to what we spend on these planes? The bigger question is what does Dynon offer that everyone else hasn't had for quite a while? One answer to that is AOA, as the Garmin doesn't handle AOA at all which I think is silly of them. That's just not enough.

Still, if I leave Oshkosh without at least hearing a FIRM date on some of these long running promises...I'm getting off the Dynon wagon. What's the point of having a panel full of glass and computers when the only time the data can be accessed after the fact is when the FAA asks Dynon for information for the crash investigation. If I'm paying for the technology that gathers the info...I want it available for my own use. Not Dynon's and certainly not the FAA's.

Last year I switched from the IPhone to the new awesome super android and what I learned from that short lived mistake is that a small engineering staff with a good idea and a small budget will always have a really difficult time putting out a product as polished as a huge, very experienced engineering staff with a massive budget. Can it be done? Certainly...but it usually isn't. I do hope Dynon blows me away at Oshkosh though. ADSB doesnt appear like it will do it for me here in the Midwest. I hope that's not the only rabbit they have in their hat.

ColoRv said:

I'm in the same position you are in that I am at the point where it's time to build my panel. But, I've already purchased dynon's servos and AOA heated pitot. With that said, I'm going to make my decision at Oshkosh and purchase the system I intend to install. Honestly, I'm leaning towards Garmin and sending my Dynon gear back to Aircraft Spruce or selling it here. I'm not going to make the decision until after Oshkosh though because I want to put my fingers on the various systems and I want to see what each company unveils.

My current worries with Dynon came after going back and reading what they've promised in here and how long ago they promised it. XM weather has been a huge priority of theirs for a long time...lots of 'coming soon' assurances. That's a trend that concerns me. GRT, MGL, AFS, Garmin Etc have had weather for how long now? XM weather isn't a new technology, neither is data logging. There is no wheel to invent here. Dynon is way late to the party and in the tech world that's a real concern.

Having said all of that, I'll say this. I like the look of the skyview and clearly ive bought into the 'soon' promises, as I have a couple thousand in dynon gear on my bench. But, no radio, no xm weather, no data logging, no checklists, and autopilot is hampered compared to the competition etc all to save $2k compared to a much more capable Garmin system? I can't believe I'm about to say this, but what's 2k when it comes to what we spend on these planes? The bigger question is what does Dynon offer that everyone else hasn't had for quite a while? One answer to that is AOA, as the Garmin doesn't handle AOA at all which I think is silly of them. That's just not enough.

Still, if I leave Oshkosh without at least hearing a FIRM date on some of these long running promises...I'm getting off the Dynon wagon. What's the point of having a panel full of glass and computers when the only time the data can be accessed after the fact is when the FAA asks Dynon for information for the crash investigation. If I'm paying for the technology that gathers the info...I want it available for my own use. Not Dynon's and certainly not the FAA's.

Last year I switched from the IPhone to the new awesome super android and what I learned from that short lived mistake is that a small engineering staff with a good idea and a small budget will always have a really difficult time putting out a product as polished as a huge, very experienced engineering staff with a massive budget. Can it be done? Certainly...but it usually isn't. I do hope Dynon blows me away at Oshkosh though. ADSB doesnt appear like it will do it for me here in the Midwest. I hope that's not the only rabbit they have in their hat.

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Well put Bill, I echo your sentiments as I've followed the same path. I had to make the decision on Avionics about a year ago if I wanted to easily install AP servo brackets, pitot and such. I chose SkyView, but now I am questioning my decision. I was planning on two SkyViews (I've already bought one)...now I am thinking of adding a G3X alongside the SkyView. I like the fact Dynon and Garmin are competing...its good for us as consumers. They both seem to have some compelling offerings that the other doesnt...having both products in my plane might be a great way to have the best of both worlds and have dissimilar redundancy. Let me state, although I am having second thoughts on Dynon, there is still a lot about them I like and probably will stick with what I have...its still the best 'bang for your buck' in my opinion for a 'deluxe VFR' bird. These avionics decisions are making my head hurt! I will be making my final decisions at OSH...someone is going to get my money, just not sure who yet?

Bill, come flying with me soon so you can get some hands on experience in flight with the Dynon system and see how you like it.

Having flown behind the skyview screens for 50 hours now here are my general observations.

I will echo the sentiment above about the ease of use. Its a system that you can use 95% of the functionality without ever having to touch a manual. Its intuitive and works great at what it does. Also same as above, I highly recommend getting some hands on time with each system at Osh to make the decision.

I could say several more good things about the system but for the interest of Bill's original topic, here are a few things I find lacking in the Skyview system that havent been mentioned already:

-Cant send radio frequencies to comm
-Doesnt have checklist capabilities
-Doesnt have weight and balance calculator abilities
-Doesnt have any 'switch fuel tank' or other custom reminder timers
-No XM weather although the ADSB weather was recently announced..If I understand correctly how ADSB works, I think I prefer XM weather for the higher reliability of availability.

Fortunately, our Garmin 696 fills in these blanks and compliments the Skyview system perfectly in regard to the above mentioned items.

Definately

I will definately take you up on the flight offer... what you doing Sunday morning? or will you already be on the way to OSH. If not then maybe at OSH

Thanks also for the "Missing" items I was not aware of some of them, and none of them are deal breakers, but nice to know what is missing while making my decision.

We're leaving for Osh Sun morning but if you arent doing anything Saturday we might be able to get a flight in. If not Sat then during or after Osh would work too.

blahphish said:

Bill, come flying with me soon so you can get some hands on experience in flight with the Dynon system and see how you like it.

Having flown behind the skyview screens for 50 hours now here are my general observations.

I will echo the sentiment above about the ease of use. Its a system that you can use 95% of the functionality without ever having to touch a manual. Its intuitive and works great at what it does. Also same as above, I highly recommend getting some hands on time with each system at Osh to make the decision.

I could say several more good things about the system but for the interest of Bill's original topic, here are a few things I find lacking in the Skyview system that havent been mentioned already:

-Cant send radio frequencies to comm
-Doesnt have checklist capabilities
-Doesnt have weight and balance calculator abilities
-Doesnt have any 'switch fuel tank' or other custom reminder timers
-No XM weather although the ADSB weather was recently announced..If I understand correctly how ADSB works, I think I prefer XM weather for the higher reliability of availability.

Fortunately, our Garmin 696 fills in these blanks and compliments the Skyview system perfectly in regard to the above mentioned items.

Click to expand...

If I was in charge of product planning at Dynon, my hardware priority would be:

- 3" Skyview EFIS with built-in attitude gyros. For backup and tandem back-seat. This plays to Dynon's strengths and provides new revenue opportunities. Right now, Trutrak seems to be the leader in this segment, with a very light, shallow PFD... but not SV bus compatible.

Notice that a Comm is not on my list. This market is well covered from several sources.

Software priorities always change, but I am not flying with my SV system yet so I don't yet feel qualified to offer an opinion.

I have an opinion.

These are some of the items we take pride of with SkyView. While we are not always the fastest with new features, the tradeoff is we make sure items are totally integrated into a complete system and ready for flight status. Most of our design staff are pilots, not just engineers, and we design for manufacturability so we can offer high quality with good prices. Perhaps it is a gestalt thing, but here are some of the details that go into SkyView that make the total system an excellent flight instrument.

? 10X higher terrain resolution (see our Design Note on this subject)
? Brighter screens that also dim darker for night flight
? Auto dimming
? Large screen with higher resolution
? Landscape display format that makes better use of panel space
? Free USA databases
? Only pay once per plane for other non-US databases
? Multiple AHRS capability with cross-checking
? Dual knobs for fast data entry
? 8 buttons for fast XPNDR code entry
? Integrated battery backup
? Installation equipment and wiring designed for homebuilders
? Highly configurable engine monitoring display
? Designed, made, tested, and calibrated in our own facilities here near Seattle
? And of course excellent prices (somebody has to set the standard to keep prices affordable for homebuilders.)

Some of these items are more subjective than others, but once you fly behind them you will understand the difference.

As Stein says, my $0.02.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

P.S. We have been increasing our design staff over the past year, and new features are being developed faster. I wish I could show you some of the stuff I see in-house.

This is a really tough to answer in a format of something missing "x functionality"...because the way to look at it is what brand X and brand Y and brand Z have in totality. Missing probably isn't the right word, more like what does each particular company focus on. There simply is not a single product from a single company that currently covers the requirements, needs and wants of every consumer in this market. When you get lists from marketing folks or owners who've only flown behind either of a particular product, you naturally are getting a rather subjective and selective list. Furthermore, things that are listed as important to some folks are absolutely useless to others.

When choosing a product there are many more variables than simply putting an excel list of functions down and ticking off the boxes. A lot goes on behind the screen - things like software, hardware, overall reliability, company strength, company knowledge, overall ease of installation, the depth of each listed piece of functionality (is it merely 'there' so it can be listed...is the function a mile wide and an inch deep, or an inch wide and a mile deep), integration with other parts of the place, support from both a dealer and mfgr perspective, value, cost, longevity, upgradability, weight, maintenance, interfaces to your computer, data downloads and manipulation, people behind the product, so on and so forth. I will say that I've seen some pretty dubious marketing & advertising claims from a lot of manufacturers...so if you believe everything you read in sales literature (from any company), then I also have some $8 bridges for sale to go along with my expanse of oceanfront property in Arizona!

There simply are so many variables that it truly takes a unique look at each persons perspectve in order to find out what "missing" or "included" items in any brand box are of importance. From my perspective I don't necessarily care which one you buy other than to try and find what fits best for your particular situation, plane, budget, etc.. That isn't going to be the same for every person.

Anyway, I know I'm not adding much other than to say lists of functions aren't all that should be considered when making a purchase. Also nobody wants to repeat Chelton, Op Technologies, Blue Mountain or any other of those debacles, so it makes the choices even tougher. That being said, the remaining companies all make pretty darned good products that are amazing to fly behind, no matter which one it is.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

skyview

I have flown the Skyview for 120 hrs and I love it.
they really do need to get with the data log program though. the rs232 data out is a pain to use. Have you tried to even see where a mouse is on your lap top in the aircraft to start recording using hyperlink or any other pc program?

there definitely needs to be a "plug in a usb and turn on the recording" method.

that having been said, I still love the skyview and was intriged by the 3" skyview comment. I have a d6 for backup and wish for another skyview.

One other thing I would like to change is when you have the moveing map up, the right knob is dedicated to the map leaving baro, altitude, hdg, crs, and vert speed to the left knob. I have to change hdg, alt, and baro frequently, the map not so much. even if they left the map modes on the right knob in addition to the rest, I could leave one knob on the hdg and one on the alt.

There was a criticism of slowness ofpromised features. I think the best feature is a solid company that is going to be there in the future.

GRT didn't make your list, for whatever personal reason you have.
But their EFIS does do data logging onto a USB memory stick; take it home, or play it back in the plane while in the hangar.

Initially, i thought i NEEDED data logging, too. First flight, new engine, yadda yadda yadda. I even hacked up a serial data logger to record the data stream. I have 150 hours of recorded data that I have honestly never bothered with. It is there recording away but prefer to do screen captures instead. All the data is great, but is little use without a way to visualize the data.

In this case, a picture is worth a thousand numbers. Make sure the USB flash drive is inserted, and press #2 and #7 buttons simultaneously. In one screen capture, i have all my engine temps and data, my GPS position on the MAP, and all of my attitude and flight data on the PFD. It has served me 90% of the way. True, I do not have a real-time graph.



It would be great to see a way of automatically taking snapshots every 5 seconds or so instead of having to do the key press manually.

I [vicariously] miss the good old days

BobTurner said:

GRT didn't make your list, for whatever personal reason you have.
But their EFIS does do data logging onto a USB memory stick; take it home, or play it back in the plane while in the hangar.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with the GRT, just have to eliminate down to 1 eventually. (Unless I can't decide and go with one screen from each manufacturer)

That is the problem with the current EFIS choices.... there are too many choices, and they are all great choices.

[email protected] said:

Nothing wrong with the GRT, just have to eliminate down to 1 eventually.

Click to expand...

Take your time.

Joking aside I'm glad you're doing the homework.

Regards,

Carlos Fernandez
GRT Avionics

Its fun to shop avionics, but if you're a year out, I'd wait to decide!

Wire the airplane to give/recieve data for the flight system you choose later.

You are going to want a full set of engine probes
Maybe a canopy open/closed contact?
OAT?
Parking break?
Flap indicator?
Trim indicator?
Buttons on your flight stick?
etc etc

In wiring, I recommend that you think modular. So be able to add/remove parts relatively easy incase you want to upgrade change later. You might even build with some added capability that you would like/anticipate at a leter date.

Thats my 20-20 hindsight from our build.

Skyview

A couple of items. Dynon support is excellent for builders and flyers alike. Believe me, I have tested this to the max and everytime Dynon has come through.
Robert and the team at Dynon are honest and will tell you what is going on. When considering a purchase think.. what about after the purchase? I wont name names but there is a certain name mentioned here that is big in certified world- think twice about free database and support is my caution with that company, sure the eye candy is nice but what about when there is a problem- Dynon replaces and resolves issues.. FREE.
Data logging- Have it with my VP200, nice for the hour I used it for Lean of peak testing and fine tuning otherwise never ever have used it. As Jae says, take pictures of the screen as your flying, that has been much more effective for me.
I am grabbing a list mentioned above- I mean no disrespect as the points are valid but just my .02 on this;
-Cant send radio frequencies to comm - that may be nice but I am dealing with not having it. I have mine setup for it when it is released. With that said there are 5 serial connections on a Skyview I am MAXED out on them all with all the Dynon interconnectivity so check how mant GRT, Advanced/Trutrak, and Garmin offer, you will need them.
-Doesnt have checklist capabilities- my VP-200 has it and it sure beats the paper, but there is paper and that takes up less space on a Skyview screen.If I had to look at the checklist on my Skyview I probably would not use it, the VP200 does it as part of an automated phase for me automatically (using GPS and engine data from a Skyview Serial connection(s)) so there is a benefit versus needing to scroll through pages of a checklist- easier to do on paper for me.
-Doesnt have weight and balance calculator abilities- There is a nice app for the RV-10 out there by Greg Hale. Do the W&B before you're in the plane not before departing, sucks battery while doing the numbers- AFS has it today if that is important.
-Doesnt have any 'switch fuel tank' or other custom reminder timers- When my wing gets heavy I switch.. kidding but I look at fuel consumption and probably switch 1 time per hour. I do see a benefit to this however if someone needs a 20 minute switch over (for me the less I move something the better)

As one can tell, I am a happy camper, I have asked for terrain/mapping improvements and Dynon has continued to improve on that. They listen to the Forums and the squeeky wheel gets the oil in the next release (usually)
They are working on all in one by having their own transponder ADS-B complaint, recently released weather and traffic using their transponder for ftraffic, they are discussing releasing their own COMM radio, etc.. in the end they are going where the G1000 is, once screen for everything..

Last note on Robert's comment- Databases may be free but if you want to use their solid mapping software/Synthetic vision you need to buy a license for that, than it's free forever more..

Hope this gives a different perspective for you and some ideas when comparing PFD and avionics.

I don't think anyone questions Dynon's honesty, or any of the suppliers really. They have all had schedules slip here and there. My biggest question with Dynon is engineering size. What an EFIS can do today isn't nearly as important as what they can design into it tomorrow as new tech surfaces. The Dynon D1 is their new release and it seems to me that the skyview system has lagged seriously behind its competition while the engineers were developing the D1. Having spent years of my youth in R&D electronics for Chrysler and Martin Marietta, I know for certain that number of bodies combined with experience (read as expense) of those bodies means a lot. When I see a company lag behind their competition, making 'soon' promises that stretch out to years....I have to wonder about the size of their engineering muscle or their commitment to the product. As we always said, if we are a model year behind we have lost the race.

Data logging has a lot more functional use than a picture of a screen. Having to fly an aircraft that has an issue with it, in order to gather info on that issue is a safety issue to me and it's been requested on Dynon's forums since the system was released.

The Dynon system does everything outside of the display and uses serial connections for most of it. Counting serial connections on the competition isn't relevant since they don't communicate the same way nor do everything in separate boxes.

Yes, we can use paper for checklists but if the Skyview is priced within reach of its competition, it's going to have its features compared head to head. If its missing a checklist function or other small things, well it's 15% cheaper so no big deal. But it's also missing radio functions, XM, vertical auto pilot nav, plates, etc. Clearly, for every builder there is going to be a number. Save me X amount of money and I'll do without Y amount of functionality. There is also likely a list of functions that each builder thinks a 10 thousand dollar system should have regardless.

In the end we each pull out our checkbook based on our own list of criteria. I have spent a couple thousand on Dynon gear already, but this Oshkosh trip has convinced me to send it back.

ColoRv said:

... I have spent a couple thousand on Dynon gear already, but this Oshkosh trip has convinced me to send it back.

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You certainly have that right. Dynon's SV is not as feature-rich as some of their competitors, but you must determine if a feature is a must-have or a nice-to-have. Also, fewer but better (more reliable) features may be a better choice.

Despite my defence of Dynon, I am puzzled by some of their product planning decisions lately. For example, there are many Comm vendors, so why is Dynon replicating mature, readily available products? They licensed a transponder from Trig, so why not a Comm as well? To add insult to injury, they don't even support the defacto standard SL-40 frequency download protocol.

The D1 is an interesting product, and may enhance Dynon's revenue in the certified market, but where is a 3" SkyView compatible EFIS of similar feature set?

Why an ADS-B receiver 8 years before ADS-B is fully deployed, and will not useful in any country except the USA? XM weather is more widely available (but more expensive)--but not supported.

Great company, great products, great support, but lagging in function and features. Keep the pressure on and maybe they'll focus more on their key (EFIS) business.

Readers may notice that I have become quite cricial of Dynon despite being a long time user (and future user). Just call it tough love.

SL-40/30 COM support will come as we support our own radio. And per usual Dynon features, will be much more full featured than you expect or would have thought possible.

vlittle said:

You certainly have that right. Dynon's SV is not as feature-rich as some of their competitors, but you must determine if a feature is a must-have or a nice-to-have. Also, fewer but better (more reliable) features may be a better choice.

Despite my defence of Dynon, I am puzzled by some of their product planning decisions lately. For example, there are many Comm vendors, so why is Dynon replicating mature, readily available products? They licensed a transponder from Trig, so why not a Comm as well? To add insult to injury, they don't even support the defacto standard SL-40 frequency download protocol.

The D1 is an interesting product, and may enhance Dynon's revenue in the certified market, but where is a 3" SkyView compatible EFIS of similar feature set?

Why an ADS-B receiver 8 years before ADS-B is fully deployed, and will not useful in any country except the USA? XM weather is more widely available (but more expensive)--but not supported.

Great company, great products, great support, but lagging in function and features. Keep the pressure on and maybe they'll focus more on their key (EFIS) business.

Readers may notice that I have become quite cricial of Dynon despite being a long time user (and future user). Just call it tough love.

Click to expand...

I think I'd agree with the concern over feature prioritization...granted I'm not done building yet (soon, dear God...soon ), but...although the ADS-B box will be nice for weather and traffic, I'd rather have had them complete things like autopilot capabilities (coupled approaches, etc.) before moving on to other things. I'm confident they'll get them all in eventually, though, including all the features others have that they don't (yet) like VFR and IFR georeferenced charts, etc. All in due time...

But yes, the choice in what to add or finish seems a bit odd to me...but I'm not in Marketing, either, FWIW.

Buy the product that does what you want on the day you make the decision. Don't give any credit to promises of features that are coming in the future, as you cannot be sure those features will ever be delivered, or that they will work in a way that you find satisfactory.

Kevin Horton said:

Buy the product that does what you want on the day you make the decision. Don't give any credit to promises of features that are coming in the future, as you cannot be sure those features will ever be delivered, or that they will work in a way that you find satisfactory.

Click to expand...

Very sound advice IMO. Would hate to spend the amount of money required for the panel based on promises. Not to say they won't come to fruition, but if not...

Four years ago one of the EFIS manufactures promised me a fix and to this day they have not got around to correcting the software. But they have successfully come out with many new revisions and bigger screens and auto-pilots etc.
The problem, the EFIS won't decode XM Canadian weather. All of their completion does.

Disclaimer: I have a GRT.

This is a never ending debate and I try to stay out of these. I agree with Stein about different EFIS's for different folks. I also agree with Kevin on buy what is done, not on what is promised.

I waited for SV to come out before buying. I was set to buy the SV, but when it came out there were too many promises that GRT already had implemented.

Every feature listed on this thread so far is already on the GRT HXr. But with that said, it's just a software update away from all the others having the same thing.

I went to OSH with a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket to do my 3rd panel. But no go. Too much confusion.

I am not set on GRT, but the others have some minuses I, personally, can't live with. I will name names.

Dynon SV is a great system but I want it to work with my TT auto pilot and have more inputs. I dont like the split screens. Don't like the toy like graphic icons.

Garmin is great also and they are about as guaranteed as you get to being around in the future, but the screen size and proportion are lacking. Like the new ADSB module. Wish it would work with the others.

AFS is nice, but I need a better test drive to be convinced. The pro's and con's with AFS are too similar to GRT for me to switch. I like the graphics and the look of the hardware.

GRT is a great system and I love the new way of data display (no split screens). But GRT is not the most popular supplier and I do worry about the Blue Mt. syndrome. But they have an super upgrade program and this will most likely keep me with GRT.

MGL is nice and they have had some great improvement but I don't like the hardware as much as the others

In the meantime, I will just upgrade the audio panel and start looking for a deal on a 430W.

Flying Scotsman said:

I think I'd agree with the concern over feature prioritization...granted I'm not done building yet (soon, dear God...soon ), but...although the ADS-B box will be nice for weather and traffic, I'd rather have had them complete things like autopilot capabilities (coupled approaches, etc.) before moving on to other things. I'm confident they'll get them all in eventually, though, including all the features others have that they don't (yet) like VFR and IFR georeferenced charts, etc. All in due time...

But yes, the choice in what to add or finish seems a bit odd to me...but I'm not in Marketing, either, FWIW.

Click to expand...

Not even going to start with trying to defend their priorites, cuz Lord knows I don't agree with them - but...

ADSB weather and traffic has been on the "must-have" list of a large segment of the builder population for a while now, since it was announced. The US contingent of privately-built aircraft is by far the largest in the world so this market makes perfect sense for the first products. ADSB is about half promise and half vaporware right now, and the early entrants into this market with a real product will gain market share just because they are there. This ADSB move on Dynons part (even if it's not the best possible product) will gain them a huge market share and pilot following, which makes it a very smart business decision. Not saying I agree with the way it was done, but it was a smart move.

60av8tor said:

Very sound advice IMO. Would hate to spend the amount of money required for the panel based on promises. Not to say they won't come to fruition, but if not...

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I have the GRT Sport 8.4 screen on the left side and a dynon d10a on the right. The EFIS panels coming on the experimental market are the greatest heads down display since leather seats. As Larry Geiger says, ?Let?s be careful out there.? The GRT is very competitive price wise, upgradable, easy to read and intuitive to use. Lots of things I like ? especially HITS and the flight director. It?s just math and software but dynon doesn?t like it. My neighbor is building a seven and is down to the wiring. He has been sitting, for a very long time, on a cut panel waiting for the promised radio from dynon. He?s losing interest and his skyview is on the bench losing warrantee. He?s not real happy.

At the dynon booth, I asked one rep to help me understand why I can?t get my d10a to calibrate to within 6 degrees hdg (which can create 30 ? 40 knot winds aloft error). He told me to ask Ian. I also asked him about the availability of the comm radio. Again, ask Ian. On the calibration, Ian, said, ?just do the best you can in lining up the aircraft on the compass rose and keep the magnatometer away from metal.? Okay, that?s as good an answer as any. On the radio, he said, ?It?s still coming.? Check dynon?s post #2 on this thread; the radio, clearly is not their next high priority (maybe after weather and data logging?). As all EFIS systems evolve, more features will be added which will take each manufacturer time. Stein says GRT is slow. I disagree. Also, reread Vern Little?s post #23. That?s a pretty unbiased opinion.

Take a look at GRT HXr. Compare the cost to update the data bases. Compare the cost to upgrade. But, if you want a name, B$U$Y$ the garmin.

The radio absolutely is an active engineering project for us, but nobody should be waiting for our radio. At no point have we ever given anyone a date on the radio, and we do that on purpose so nobody bases a decision on the existence of our radio. We apologize if anyone got the impression that there was a specific date on which we would be able to deliver one, and we would happily refund any purchase that was made on that information.

--Ian
Dynon Avionics

Got It Backwards

To turn the thread concept upside down, the EFIS' already have too much integration, codependency, and button pushing, plus slot-machine whirling graphics (SV & HITS) that often obscure the really important information. They're quite capable of turning confusion into disaster.

First issue: you should not be able to loose the horizon in any manner, ever. The G3X is the only one I know that this is the case. All the others invite losing the AH and/or DG/HSI by pushing the wrong button.

Second issue: they want a lot of button pushing. Comm, transponders, SV, HITS, autopilot, intercom, nav, GPS... it's real easy to screw up.

Third issue: all your eggs are in one basket with all the integration.

Ol' Blue (#2 RV-7) is so easy to fly because the various functions are independently distributed in separate boxes. The TT AP is that thingy over there. Fiddle with that for AP. A D6 is the AH, atop a D10A for the HSI. Never touch those. That thingy over there is the GPS supplying guidance to the Dynons. Fiddle with that for navigating. Those thingies further over are the nav/comm atop a transponder. Fiddle with those for nav or comm or xpndr-ing. NO access buttons, no sub-menus to get to what you really want to fiddle with. It's blindingly obvious and your right-seater can help.

I shopped, boy did I shop. I can buy newer (which is to say still supported by Garmin) but the obvious trend is all-in-one. That might save a few bucks or a coupla' square inches of panel space. But you loose easy comprehension and failure constraint.

So look at all those twinkling EFIS' with a jaundiced eye. What features are you really going to use and how many buttons must you push to get to them?

Please look outside once in a while.

John Siebold

Issue 1. I have a GRT Horizon and it can be set up with the PFD locked, e.g., not possible to select a page without the horizon on it.

Issue 2. I guess I'm with you here; while the efis can select com frequencies on the SL 30 I prefer to enter them directly. I think It keeps me more in the loop.

Issue 3. I use a D6 as a completely independent backup, including a self contained battery. And battery operated gps and vor for navigation. I cannot believe anyone operates IFR with all their eggs in one basket.

Wow...been reading this thread and I'm amazed at the responses garnered around minor enhancements. I don't think anyone should make purchasing decisions over what something DOESN'T have. Look at the SV system vs price and it's a remarkable value with a multitude of major bells and whistles.
Have a neighbor who flies a Questair and is obsessed with weather. Wanted to spend 6k on a small receiver with a rats nest of wires just to get ADSB traffic. For not that much more you get a fully integrated system that has SV, EMS, full mapping with no update charges, ADSB compliant transponder, weather, traffic, ADAHARS, EFIS, autopilot, etc also with FREE future software upgrades and numerous optional enhancements constantly coming down the pipe.
Don't cry over what you don't have---count your blessings.