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How important was the existence of VAF in your decision to build an RV.

How important was the existence of VAF in your decision to build an RV.

  • It was not a factor.

    Votes: 95 44.0%
  • It was a factor.

    Votes: 26 12.0%
  • It was a significant factor.

    Votes: 84 38.9%
  • It was the most important factor.

    Votes: 11 5.1%

  • Total voters
    216
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The forum is a huge marketing tool for Van's because it increases that comfort level and reduces the path of resistance by providing timely answers by experienced builders .. for free.

Bill, you've stepped into this thread and hit the nail on the head first up. There's no question that VAF is a massive marketing tool for Vans Aircraft on several levels. It's now probably their major marketing/sales tool....and it costs them nothing.

VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.

However I have observed in my life that quite often people who get things for free do not fully appreciate the value of the gift they are receiving.
 
So what's your objective with this thread? You seem to be striving make some sort of point but to what end?
 
Bill, you've stepped into this thread and hit the nail on the head first up. There's no question that VAF is a massive marketing tool for Vans Aircraft on several levels. It's now probably their major marketing/sales tool....and it costs them nothing.

VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.

However I have observed in my life that quite often people who get things for free do not fully appreciate the value of the gift they are receiving.



Wow, you are laying it on pretty thick. If you look at it from the other side, I suspect Vans could very well wish this forum didn't exist. Quite a bit of the technical support you speak of in here is coming from guys who have no business giving advice at all. There are certainly some very talented and knowledgeable people in here....but they are outnumbered by those who have never completed a project of any kind but have very strong opinions none the less. Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it.

There is a lot of advertisement in here and that is where the income for this site comes from. Vans owes VAF nothing and VANS Air Force would not exist without using Vans name to promote it. Something many companies would not even allow. Let's not get too confused as to which one owes it's existence to the other.

You have a grand total of 216 poll responses at this point and nearly half of them have said VAF had no impact on their decision making. There are 10,000 flying RVs and lord knows how many builders pounding rivets. If you were to seriously analyze this poll with those numbers in mind....you wouldn't come to the conclusion you obviously have.
 
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VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.

How do you know that Van's is not compensating DR?
 
Quite a bit of the technical support you speak of in here is coming from guys who have no business giving advice at all. Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it.

I note that you have made 856 posts on VAF since 2012. I'm really surprised that you continue to persevere with a technical forum that you consider is so flawed and has so little to offer.
 
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I note that you have made 856 posts on VAF since 2012. I'm really surprised that you continue to persevere with a technical forum that you consider is so flawed and has so little to offer.

I don't think what he said was in any way implying it had no value.

In fact what he did say was pretty much 100% right on.
 
I suspect VAF is a double-edged sword for Vans. Even if it's not directly a factor in a builder or buyer choosing an RV, it helps to focus attention on RV's and third party suppliers. It's also a useful source of information (and misinformation) for most builders. Overall, that must be good for sales of RV's. On the other hand, Vans tech staff must get frustrated at times at the quality of some of the free advice that appears here and obviously do their best to monitor the content and correct where necessary. That's probably something they would rather not have to do.
 
VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

Bob I completely agree that this forum is an invaluable tool for deciding how to move forward with all sorts of challenges that arise during a build, once you learn how to filter out the valuable opinions from the rest that mean well. But as others have indicated, in no way can it constitute technical support. That can only be provided with any authority by Van's. In my opinion.
 
Bob I completely agree that this forum is an invaluable tool for deciding how to move forward with all sorts of challenges that arise during a build, once you learn how to filter out the valuable opinions from the rest that mean well. But as others have indicated, in no way can it constitute technical support. That can only be provided with any authority by Van's. In my opinion.

It all depends on what you mean by "technical support". For structural issues I often respond to posters by advising them to go directly to Vans. But very few threads started on VAF are about genuine structural issues.

We need to get this in perspective. I have just looked through the entire first page of "Today's Posts". That's 62 threads and I doubt that there's one thread question that needed to be referred to Vans. There's not a serious "structural" question among the lot. However if VAF did not exist then Vans Aircraft would be bombarded with most of these questions. Every day they'd be getting hundreds of emails from builders asking trivial questions such as: "How do I stop getting smileys on my universal rivets". That would constipate Vans Support and I doubt that they would enjoy that.

I fully understand that there is a fair bit of dubious advice given on VAF and Users really need to be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I acknowledge that, but we should not lose sight of the fact that the upside to VAF massively outweighs the downside for both Users and Vans Aircraft.
 
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I don't think what he said was in any way implying it had no value.

In fact what he did say was pretty much 100% right on.

Well, what ColoRV did in fact say was (and I'm quoting him verbatim):

"If you look at it from the other side, I suspect Vans could very well wish this forum didn't exist".

"Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it."

Scott, are you saying that these comment are "100% right on". Are you saying that Vans has low regard for VAF and perhaps even wishes this forum didn't exist. Surely not.
 
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Well, what ColoRV did in fact say was (and I'm quoting him verbatim):

"If you look at it from the other side, I suspect Vans could very well wish this forum didn't exist".

"Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it."

Scott, are you saying that these comment are "100% right on". Are you saying that Vans has low regard for VAF and perhaps even wishes this forum didn't exist. Surely not.

You have clearly made up your mind and regardless of the poll responses refuse to change it. That's your right, but answer me this. How many phone calls and emails do you think Vans gets where the question only came up because the builder read something in here? I'll answer that for you...a LOT.

Let's look at it from another perspective. Some company puts out a steel brace for the vertical stab, posts about it in here and voila....it gets put into projects with zero structural analysis. Whose reputation is at risk when that rigid steel bracelet tears the tail to pieces during flutter? Who gets sued? Is that brace going to do that? I don't know. Neither do you. Neither does Vans...but they have to worry about it. You shrug off the misinformation like it's only an inconvenience. An aircraft company with assets and a well earned reputation has to worry about what happens when that bad advice kills someone. It only takes one bad accident to end a company. Build to plans and there is very little to worry about.

This forum has value, to you and me....mostly as a social gathering place but you seem bent on proving that it has value to Vans and that is simply not true. If anything it adds risk to an already risky field.
 
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