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  #11  
Old 02-13-2019, 02:42 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Let me double down on Greg's post.

One other thing, you can build the -9 as a dragon tail.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2019, 02:48 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Let me double down on Greg's post.

One other thing, you can build the -9 as a dragon tail.
Yep, I'm still chasing drag reduction and I've got quite a bit to work on. I'll be happy when I'm showing similar numbers to Bill. Not having a nose gear hanging out in the slip stream is a plus for him.

The Roncz airfoil definitely does like higher altitudes - I've had my 9A up to FL210 but I get my best efficiency between 14,000 and 17,000.
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Greg Niehues - PPSEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2019 dues paid
N16GN flying 450 hrs and counting! Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:11 PM
snoop9erdog snoop9erdog is offline
 
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Without doubt Carl. Can't go wrong. Heading back to the shop......


With Similar setups as far as engine HP & Prop....would be interesting to compare time to get to 17,500. Difference probably isn't enough to matter. The 8 is a sweet looking bird.
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St. Johns, AZ (SJN)
N646A RV9
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:24 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop9erdog View Post
Without doubt Carl. Can't go wrong. Heading back to the shop......


With Similar setups as far as engine HP & Prop....would be interesting to compare time to get to 17,500. Difference probably isn't enough to matter. The 8 is a sweet looking bird.
Definitely would be an interesting tale....

I know that when I leveled at 17,000 going to Hot Springs last weekend I was climbing on autopilot at 500fpm and 98 knots indicated, solo with full standard fuel and about 80 or so pounds in the baggage compartment. When I came out of Reno with 67 gallons and about the same baggage I leveled at 19,000 climbing 300fpm at 96-98 indicated, that took me direct home in just over 6 hours and I landed with just over 3 hours cruise fuel still in the tanks.

I have not done any time-to-climb checks in my airplane, other than runway to pattern altitude, which is quick!

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Greg Niehues - PPSEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2019 dues paid
N16GN flying 450 hrs and counting! Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 02-13-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:58 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoop9erdog View Post
Without doubt Carl. Can't go wrong. Heading back to the shop......


With Similar setups as far as engine HP & Prop....would be interesting to compare time to get to 17,500. Difference probably isn't enough to matter. The 8 is a sweet looking bird.
It would be interesting but none of our planes are the same.

For example, I have a taildragger and Greg a tricycle. I have the short Sam James cowl, Greg had the long Same James cowl. I have a carb and Greg has injection. I have dual electronic P-mag ignitions Greg has one mag and one Plasma I electronic igntion. I have a Catto two bladed prop, Geg has a WW RV200 prop.

The list goes on.but you get the idea.

Probably the best thing you can do is to built it as light as you can. (I'm 1068 with the O-360.)
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
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www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 02-13-2019 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Updated with Greg's info.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2019, 06:42 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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I'm actually running the long James cowl and WWRV200 prop, with Plasma I and a mag, but yes your point is accurate. Every copy is different.
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Greg Niehues - PPSEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2019 dues paid
N16GN flying 450 hrs and counting! Built an off-plan 9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2019, 09:53 AM
Flynfrfun Flynfrfun is offline
 
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I've been interested in the original question too. Is maintenance on a Rotax 912ULS more expensive than a Lycoming? Consider every 5 years the Rotax will need the rubber replaced at parts cost of $1200 if you do it yourself or $2500+ for a shop to do it. Gearbox and carbs have to be maintained too. When you figure 50hrs a year usage, that equates to 250hrs every 5yrs in between rubber replacements. What does a Lycoming typically require every 5yrs or 250hrs?

I'm sure there must be RV12 owners that used to own Lycoming powered aircraft. Any input on cost of ownership comparisons would be interesting. Almost seems like the Rotax might cost more to keep maintained even though the cost in fuel/hr is less. It seems likely that the Rotax will go to TBO w/out exhaust valve or top end work, whereas a Lycoming that is not flown regularly probably will need top end work at 1000hrs? I'm speaking about engines that fly roughly 50hrs a year. I know engines that are flown a lot have a higher likelyhood of going longer with less work, and I think the Rotax might do better in a low usage environment.
Josh

Last edited by Flynfrfun : 02-14-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynfrfun View Post
I've been interested in the original question too. Is maintenance on a Rotax 912ULS more expensive than a Lycoming? Consider every 5 years the Rotax will need the rubber replaced at parts cost of $1200 if you do it yourself or $2500+ for a shop to do it.
Nope. One-time $700 hit for a complete set of new Teflon fuel hoses, good until overhaul. Oil hoses are a 10-year item, much cheaper if I recall correctly. Water hoses are fairly low cost; some people have used automotive hose but we went with Rotax replacements. Still pretty cheap. Nowhere near $1200 for everything we replaced at the five-year mark, maybe 2/3 that at most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flynfrfun View Post
Gearbox and carbs have to be maintained too.
I don't remember the total parts cost for our 200-hour carb teardown, but it wasn't all that much. We didn't have to replace the floats or diaphragms, those are a little more spendy. Oh, and my spark plugs cost under $25 for a full set of 8. Also, the mechanical fuel pump is a five-year item. Not terribly expensive, trivial to replace.

Overall, the 912ULS is really not that expensive to maintain. So far we haven't needed to touch anything outside of scheduled maintenance done during the condition inspection. I don't have any experience owning a Lycoming (don't I wish), so I can't say how they compare.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:16 AM
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bruceh bruceh is offline
 
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Here is my experience with 640+ hours so far on my RV-9A with a Lycoming IO-320.

My fuel cost per hour over the last 5 years (tracked in a spreadsheet, since I'm a computer geek) has been $26.75. I use around 6 gallons per hour of 100LL in my flying. Never tried autogas, since everything in California has ethanol.

I do an oil and filter change 4 times a year. This costs me about $300 per year, includes getting the oil analyzed.

The only other "maintenance" costs I've incurred have been tires and brakes.
At various times for annuals I have replaced little things like the crank seal on the engine (finally got it to stop leaking oil), touched up paint, and done some electronic upgrades (fix flakey EGT probes, replace the ELT battery, new 2020 GPS, knob panel for the Dynon Skyview). The P-mags use automotive spark plugs and that costs me $24 per annual to replace all 8 of them.

This year my annual is coming up on 5 years, so I will be taking a look at possibly replacing my alternator belt. I think the hoses are good for longer than 5 years.

So I'm 1/3 of the way to TBO, and hopefully this trend will continue. When it comes time to overhaul, I may just swap an IO-360 in her.
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2019, 12:01 PM
Flynfrfun Flynfrfun is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
Nope. One-time $700 hit for a complete set of new Teflon fuel hoses, good until overhaul.
That is true DaleB...this is a recent update that should reduce Rotax ownership costs.

I've been interested in purchasing an RV12 and have had the chance to look thru several engine log books. What I see is a lot of money being spent on service bulletins, 5yr rubber changes, carb overhauls, gear box maintenance, fuel pumps etc.

Personally, I can't enjoy 8gal/hr ($45/hr) Avgas cost in my flying which is why I've been looking at RV12's.
Josh
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