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  #91  
Old 02-25-2019, 01:28 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
Posts: 1,434
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I’ve been through two sets of floats this year already. I’m told the new ones are clearing customs this week.
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Wag Aero Sport Trainer sold and wrecked
N588DF RV12 #336 Sold, alive and well in New York
N73DF RV12 #244 Sold, alive and well in Florida
N91 RV RV9 I wish I could say I built this one! Mark Santoleri hit the ball out of the park on this gem.
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  #92  
Old 02-25-2019, 03:07 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave12 View Post
I’ve been through two sets of floats this year already. I’m told the new ones are clearing customs this week.
mogas E-10 or LL100 for fuel?
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  #93  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:51 PM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
...
  • ...
  • ...
  • Or, maybe a slight difference in float level doesn’t matter too much in a carburetor that is used in an airplane. Imagine what the floats are seeing when the airplane is in bumpy air – the entire quantity of fuel in the bowl would sometimes be thrown to the side or vertically to the top of the bowl. I would guess that the carburetor fuel bowl is a rather violent place when the airplane is in flight. It would be interesting to know how well the floats control fuel level in various flight regimes.
That was actually what I was thinking that prompted me to experiment with the MS floats. Fuel has got to be sloshing around inside the bowl just from normal engine vibration, although there could be come counteracting forces that might dampen that. Beyond me - all I know is they seem to be working OK so far.
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Port Orange, Fl
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK in progress
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  #94  
Old 02-26-2019, 08:12 AM
dbhill916 dbhill916 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Westerville, OH
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhill916 View Post
Burgundy Baron is down for "5-6 weeks" per LEAF for replacement float.

If anyone finds a vendor with a shorter lead time, please let me know.

thanks,
-dbh
Good news! Despite the original quote of 5-6 weeks, LEAF delivered a pair of floats (861 189's) yesterday. Hopefully they received enough to clear out everyone's back orders, so we'll all be able to find out if the 189s work any better.
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N76012
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http://n76012.blogspot.com
Dues paid through 6-2019
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  #95  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:34 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
mogas E-10 or LL100 for fuel?
Mogas E10.....
__________________
Wag Aero Sport Trainer sold and wrecked
N588DF RV12 #336 Sold, alive and well in New York
N73DF RV12 #244 Sold, alive and well in Florida
N91 RV RV9 I wish I could say I built this one! Mark Santoleri hit the ball out of the park on this gem.
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  #96  
Old 04-07-2019, 04:02 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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You guessed it… new member here. Yesterday I flew with my friend in his 1-year old RV-12 S-LSA with 130TT. I smelled a whiff of gasoline on take-off and on initial climb. We flew 30 miles and landed/relaunched again with same smell of gasoline. Flew another 30 miles and landed and this time shut off the engine. On engine restart we had extreme roughness and zero power. Upon exiting the aircraft there was a puddle of fuel on the ground. We removed the top cowling and ran the electric fuel pump to discover fuel pouring out of the right carb air filter.

The airplane had to spend the night and we got a long car ride home from a friend. This morning we gather tools and a spare set of Bing floats and set out to bring the plane home. We removed the floats from the offending carb and weighed them on the spot at 8.83 grams. The spare floats I had are actually
“heavy” floats sent to me by Paul Straub. I was going to experiment and try to lighten the floats but never got around to it. Anyway, I measured the floats this morning and they were 6.3 grams. They must have dried out over time. We used these floats to fly home and will replace soonest. I suspect floats that once absorb fuel will do so again – probably in short order.

So, a few observations…

1. Floats weighing 8.83 grams will sink to the point of allowing raw gasoline to flow out the inlet of the carb and drip from the air filter.
2. If you smell fuel on take-off or initial climb you probably have heavy floats and a fuel leakage is occurring.
3. On closer examination we see the discharge end of the clear overflow tube that tucks into the float bowl bail wire has a deformed end. Instead of a clean flush cut, the end almost looks melted. Perhaps fuel was leaking over-time and distorted the end of the tube?
4. We will add a set of dried-out floats to the list of spare parts carried in the airplane.

Now for the hundred’s-of-dollar’s question

Do we buy Bing or Marvel-Schebler floats? I’m leaning toward Marvel-Schebler. Perhaps a show of hands from the guys using MS floats and what their experience has been so far. The detractor I have with MS is they don’t answer emails and that just leaves a real sour taste in my mouth.

Any and all advice appreciated…
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio (1OA2)
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC July 2012 N633CM
RV-12 Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 475

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #97  
Old 04-07-2019, 05:36 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 153
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If you can find MS80-430 or MS80-431 on their website, go order some. Not sure, but they seem to have currently been removed from the marketplace. or at least from their website, online. Might have to give them a call. Or maybe someone's email about their guarantee decided to make the legal department there remove them altogether.

I was looking at this website for Bing Carb rebuild kits, and floats. Interestingly, the kits are marketed as Alcohol Resistant . Not Alcohol proof. Things that make you wonder how serious Bing is about solving this problem, or Rotax, for that matter, since motorcycles don't run AVgas at all, and are at the whims of Mogas fuel makers for Ethanol and other additive content.

http://bingcarburetor.com/store/p73/..._BOWL_KIT.html

Maybe one day we get a bolt on aftermarket fuel injection kit for the 912 ULS, and put an end to this nonsense on Bing QC, leaky carbs, bad floats, and fire hazards.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 04-07-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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  #98  
Old 04-07-2019, 05:55 PM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 124
Default Floats

I talked with the MS guy at Sun 'N Fun about the floats. He said they are out of stock right now so they took them off their web site. When they get them back in stock, they will be back on the web site.

He said these floats are made of the same material and in the same manner as the floats they make for certified engines. He also said in their testing, the fact that they weight more than the bing floats does not matter.

I don't have to buy any right now, but when I do, I will consider MS floats.

A very experienced Rotax mechanic told me if you have to replace the floats, save the ones that are under the weight limit because you may need them in the future. Like you suggested, carry them in the airplane.
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John D. Young, RV-12 Owner
Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 140 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a advancd Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #99  
Old 04-07-2019, 05:55 PM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 837
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I have almost 35 hrs on my MS floats so far, no problems so far. I'll be doing a 600 hr inspection, probably later this week. I'll be doing a carb overhaul as part of that and I intend to look at the feasibility of making a small adjustment in the float armature to see if I can compensate for the slightly different pin depth (see one of my earlier posts). So far so good ...
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Tom
Port Orange, Fl
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project; first flight 05/18/2019
SPA Panther N26TK in progress
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  #100  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:01 AM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,455
Default Thinking Outside the Box…

The Marvel Schebler floats apparently are heavier than the 7 gram Rotax spec and will most likely cause fuel level to be high in the float bowl.

I have an idea to fix this. Marvel Schebler says their epoxy floats can be cut and punctured and still function as designed with no fuel saturation into the base epoxy material.

Bing designed the float to be symmetrical so that it can be installed without regard to orientation.

My idea is to remove some of the base material on the MS float to attain <7 gram weight. Either machine off some of the top of the float to reduce height and/or machine chamfered edges on the top side of the float. Either method will reduce weight, and if as MS says, the epoxy will remain sealed to fuel impregnation. With this modification the float will no longer be symmetrical and will require correct orientation during assembly.

I have sent this suggestion to Marvel Schebler and we’ll see if they respond. In the mean time, I’d like to get hold of a pair of MS floats and experiment with material removal to get weight under control.

Below are pics of original MS floats and floats modified for height/weight.



__________________
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio (1OA2)
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC July 2012 N633CM
RV-12 Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 475

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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