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Slider vs. tip up

Tip-Up.

Visibility, access behind the panel, and ability to jettison (early models only).
 
Mel said:
Tip-Up.

Visibility, access behind the panel, and ability to jettison (early models only).
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I agree with Mel, about never wanting a 7 over a RV6. :)

But there is nothing better than a slider, along with a constant speed prop!:D
 
Try the advance search and change the age of the posts you are looking for (lower left). There are a number of these types of threads in the archives.

BTW, Tip-up for unlimited visibility! It is like sitting on a magic carpet with nothing in front of you.

Also, you will want a light, fixed pitch wood/composite prop too. (Just thought I would save you from posting that question.)
 
Practical considerations: If you live in a warm climate, the slider is preferable as you can slide it fully open once you're off the runway and get a great breeze. The tip-up can be opened to sit on its overhead lock (gives you about a 2" gap around the rear half of the canopy) but the airflow is nowhere near as great as on the slider. And doing so raises the glareshield, reducing forward visibility.

In flight, the tip-up visibility is amazing. I had never flown behind one until I flew the RV-6 that I eventually bought. It wasn't a criteria for the purchase, but I don't regret it for a second.
 
Slider.... just because it's cool to open it up after landing to cool off. And cool to taxi with it open.

That being said, a buddy who used to own another slider RV-6 has just offered me a Meske slider/tip up conversion kit he bought for his slider -6 before he sold the plane and never installed. I think I'll take him up on the offer :D
 
Slider

Slider, because you can add a "tip forward" kit, and have easier access to the baggage area.

AND: You can hang your elbow out the side while taxiing, adding to the "cool" factor.

AND: For taildraggers, it looks much cooler on the ground when the canopy is open.

AND: You can leave the canopy open on the ground without worrying if it will slam shut, and break.

BUT: The inflight visibility is clearly (pun intended) better with the tip up.

AND: The behind-the-panel access is better with the tip-up.

All in all: Slider for me. YMMV and YOMV. :D
 
N941WR said:
Try the advance search and change the age of the posts you are looking for (lower left). There are a number of these types of threads in the archives.

BTW, Tip-up for unlimited visibility! It is like sitting on a magic carpet with nothing in front of you.

Also, you will want a light, fixed pitch wood/composite prop too. (Just thought I would save you from posting that question.)
Click to expand...

Bill
I did search for this topic prior to posting this thread and went through a few pages. I see the advanced search link but does a regular search limit the age range?

The plane will be used all weather. I have experience with wood props and Catto props in all weather conditions. I would take one of the newer Catto props with nickel leading edge. I would consider a plane with wood prop if the price allowed for the replacement prop I know I would eventually be installing.
Do these models have a tendency to be nose heavy?
 
Tip up

Tip-up, because I'm buliding my -7 to fly, not to taxi with the canopy open :D
Yes it can be a bit on the warm side during the limited time spent on the ground, but once airborne the unrestricted visibility of the tip-up is fantastic.
 
FORANE said:
... I would consider a plane with wood prop if the price allowed for the replacement prop I know I would eventually be installing.
Do these models have a tendency to be nose heavy?
Click to expand...

Actually the -6/-7 models with wood or composite fixed pitch props, and if they also have an O-320 engine, tend to get tail heavy instead.
 
FORANE said:
The plane will be used all weather.
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If that is true, then there really is no choice. Slider.

I speak as a tip-up driver that still has leaks and wants to fly IFR. If you build by the plans, a tip-up MUST leak at the hinges. My hinges no longer leak due to mods I have done but the misfit I have at the left and right curves remains a small leak path. It is small but I will not be satisfied until it is zero. I did a 180 on my last weather flight because of water coming in. Very unnerving when all your bacon is riding on electronics. It was hard to hold my composure, get out of the rain and get on the ground.

On the flip side, I have ridden in multiple sliders. They all rattled and blew air on your neck and I felt claustrophobic so I am not an automatic convert. I like tipups better except for the d***ed leak paths.
 
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I've never flown in a tip up, but I love the -9A slider in the Florida heat. Love to taxi with the canopy back. I'm used to the -10, so my visibility is already better than I am used to.
 
As someone who didn't choose a side-by-side (I married into one) and came out of a Grumman Yankee before entering the RV world, I was a bit worried about the tip-up in the Texas heat. I didn't need to - I have felt that I get as much cool air in the tip-up in the rest position as I did in the Yankee with the slider open on the ground. Granted, in the real heat, NEITHER is going to be truly comfortable - but subjectively, having experienced both styles for a lot of hours in extreme heat, I feel that they are about equal for ventilation.

Visibility wise, as has been said, the Tip-up has less stuff in your way.

Having done two panel upgrades on the -6, I can say that it is awfully nice to get the canopy out of the way - but I still end up on my back underneath in the little cave....
 
Aaaagh, again

I think it is kind of like handed down wisdom for many other aviation things. Stories are repeated by those with no first hand experience.

The tip-up RV-6/7s are not uncomfortable on the ground in hot temperatures. With the canopy propped open they are fine. I have about fourteen years of experience in a very hot climate to support this. The sliders are also fine for ventilation. The tip-up drawbacks on the ground are that you have to be aware of winds slamming the canopy closed and you can't taxi in with your arm sticking out, although I can't figure out how you can do that anyway, as you need one hand on the throttle and the other holding the stick back. That is it for ground drawbacks. There are great advantages like an unobstructed view in the air.

RV-10s can be uncomfortable on the ground in warm weather, based on experience, but no one seems to talk about that. The little side-by-side two seaters are fine for ventilation with either canopy configuration.
 
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n5lp said:
The tip-up RV-6/7s are not uncomfortable on the ground in hot temperatures. With the canopy propped open they are fine. I have about fourteen years of experience in a very hot climate to support this.
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20 plus years experience in Texas heat. No regrets!
 
It can get warm sometimes. I use the partially locked open method to help. Not as good as a slider with the arm over the side but good enough.
 
rzbill said:
If that is true, then there really is no choice. Slider.

I speak as a tip-up driver that still has leaks and wants to fly IFR. If you build by the plans, a tip-up MUST leak at the hinges. My hinges no longer leak due to mods I have done but the misfit I have at the left and right curves remains a small leak path. It is small but I will not be satisfied until it is zero. I did a 180 on my last weather flight because of water coming in. Very unnerving when all your bacon is riding on electronics. It was hard to hold my composure, get out of the rain and get on the ground.

On the flip side, I have ridden in multiple sliders. They all rattled and blew air on your neck and I felt claustrophobic so I am not an automatic convert. I like tipups better except for the d***ed leak paths.
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This is concerning. I was leaning toward tip up. Yes definitely true that intended use will be all weather IFR with ice as about the only exception.
Do the tip ups suffer from water coming in on the ground if tied down without a cover also?
 
FORANE said:
This is concerning. I was leaning toward tip up. Yes definitely true that intended use will be all weather IFR with ice as about the only exception.
Do the tip ups suffer from water coming in on the ground if tied down without a cover also?
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It is a possibility that is easily remedied with a bit of electrical tape.
 
I don't get water in mine while tied down. You must wipe off the water before opening. That's when it will run in.
When I park outside overnight, I always use a canopy cover.
And like Larry says, a little electrical tape will work fine.
 
The glider supply websites (e.g. http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm) sell wider vinyl tape (1" and wider) for gap seals that might work better than regular electrical tape for sealing the canopy seam while parked.

A buddy of mine even used this tape for gap seals on his Glasair and it sticks pretty good.

I used some of this wider white vinyl tape on my friends RV-8 front baggage door to keep the rain out when I flew it up to Oshkosh during the "Sloshkosh" rainy year.
 
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FORANE said:
..... intended use will be all weather IFR with ice as about the only exception.
Click to expand...

I'd respectfully suggest that you might want to stay out of significant convective activity as well....

Oh, when it comes to sealing it on the ground, Home Depot sells a 2" vinyl "bundling tape" in the electrical department - big rolls, cheap, and very good at creating a seal. Our -6 is a very early model with the exposed hinges, and once we learned the tape trick, it has stayed quite dry through years of coastal thunderstorms - tied down safely on the ground, of course.
 
Slider, because it has the classic WWII Fighter feel.

Plus, like others said, you can add a tip up mechanism for accessibility.
 
After seeing a few pictures of some upside down RV's I went with the slider for safety. I know one guy that built a tip up and unfortunately at one point ended up upside down. When he rebuilt it was a slider. Obviously no one plans on having the shiny side down and the dirty side up but "S" happens and I prefer a little less view (which is better than the majority of planes out there any way) for more safety.

I have seen a few pictures of birds through the windscreen. It is probably more subjective than fact but it appears the slider wind screen holds up slightly better. Still a mess but there looked a little wind screen left.

Probably because of my job and seeing a lot of messed up folks but the short answer is Slider for a little more safety (perceived or real).

As far as cooling goes. I am not sure on that. Went flying yesterday in SoCal slider open (on the ground that is) and it was HOT. These little guys are fish bowls no matter how you open them.
 
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N64GH said:
After seeing a few pictures of some upside down RV's I went with the slider for safety. I know one guy that built a tip up and unfortunately at one point ended up upside down. When he rebuilt it was a slider. Obviously no one plans on having the shiny side down and the dirty side up but "S" happens and I prefer a little less view (which is better than the majority of planes out there any way) for more safety.
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Don't get lulled into any delusions that the slider can be opened when the aircraft is inverted on the ground. Neither canopy will move when the aircraft is on its back, as the canopy will be hard against the ground with the weight of the aircraft on it. Your only way out is to smash the canopy.
 
Snowflake said:
Don't get lulled into any delusions that the slider can be opened when the aircraft is inverted on the ground. Neither canopy will move when the aircraft is on its back, as the canopy will be hard against the ground with the weight of the aircraft on it. Your only way out is to smash the canopy.
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No illusion that you can get the slider open. However the roll bar in front and the bulkhead behind may (not saying it will) have a higher probability of providing space so you can self extricate and or give you space to survive so others can get you out. The tip up with no roll bar will probably collapse completely to the instrument panel in which case you are completely dependent on someone from the outside digging you out (most likely). I talked personally to a pilot that this happened to. He flipped his tip up. After things stopped moving he was (and pax I believe) relatively OK but could not self extricate. When he rebuilt it was a slider.

Hay they are both great. They both have pros and cons. The question was which one did you choose and why. Not saying my choice was better. Just saying my choice was "slider for safety".
 
N64GH said:
Not saying my choice was better. Just saying my choice was "slider for safety".
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Mike,

As the saying goes, "I ain't sayin', I'm just sayin'." You clearly feel that the slider is somehow "safer" when there is really no objective evidence of that. Since others will read this thread now and in the future when making this decision for themselves, I think it is important to correct the record. The tip-up does have a roll bar, a very beefy one, right behind the pilot/ pax's head, and this roll bar stands up as well during roll-overs as does the slider. In the event one has to chip ones way out, there is less metal in the way in a tip-up.

The tip-up has greater visibility making it easier to spot traffic, which clearly gives it the safety advantage there.

The choice is very much a personal one and both are great, but anyone making a decision should do so based on facts, and "slider is safer" is not objectively true.

PS- that's why we call these never ending debates. Fire away!
 
N64GH said:
No illusion that you can get the slider open. However the roll bar in front and the bulkhead behind may (not saying it will) have a higher probability of providing space so you can self extricate and or give you space to survive so others can get you out. The tip up with no roll bar will probably collapse completely to the instrument panel
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The tipup has a substantial rollbar immediately behind the occupants' heads.

The slider has no aft bulkhead, only the rollbar at the windshield. Both models have a bulkhead where the turtledeck begins.

There are esthetic reasons to prefer one type of canopy over the other, but in my opinion a case can't be made (based on actual field history) that one is easier to egress from than the other. It's a bad deal either way, and escape is primarily dependent on soil type, athleticism of the occupants, and extent of injuries.
 
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Go to OSH

and look at the fitting in detail of the two options. I am building a tipper, and after considerable wrestling with a precision fit, I remain unsure that it is going to turn out as wanted. Admittedly, this is my first build and don't have experience with sliders.

Also, talk to Jay Pratt (RV Central) or others that have multiple builds to get their experience on final precision of the fit of tippers vs sliders.

All the other differences are posted here. . somewhere. Happy decision making, there are thousands to go! Fun and education!
 
When I wrecked my RV6A, I was able to stand up....... to scream and yell, as well as pounding my fists on the roll bar fiberglass. For these types of feelings, a slider is the better option!
 
I'm thing tip-up, but

Ok VAFers,

I'm just starting my wings, but, I'm thinking tip-up is the way for the awesome visibility it brings. Convince me, why not a tip up? (and, I don't care about the cool, elbow on the rail factor. My elbow is just fine hanging out on my arm, BTW) All joking aside, visibility is a key factor for me. Tip-up is my babe.
 
Tape Trick

I want to know a little more about the "tape trick". I'm going on a little trip later this week and will have to park outside, with a cover, of course. I'm assuming that the tape goes across the front of the canopy where it meets the forward skin?

Also, do you put a piece across the joint between the canopy and the rear window, assuming you don't have a targa strip?

Thanks
 
Regarding safety of each... What if you drew a line between the nose, roll bar and rear fuselage on each... which has more headroom when flipped on its top?
 
The slider will, probably by a couple of inches or more. However, it's exceedingly unlikely that you'll be upside-down on a flat paved surface... More likely you'll end up on something bumpy, rendering your roll bar clearance moot.
 
Both good

The slider is better in the heat is a myth. Hot is hot. The tip up can be propped open for good airflow. Visibility is improved in a tip up but the slider is still excellent.

To me the big advantage with the slider is weather proofing. Sealing a tip up is tough. Tip up advantage with panel access.

Interestingly, about 10 years ago when I was getting into RV's, I did an informal count of tip up vs. sliders at Oshkosh. It was 4-1 sliders. Over the past few years that percentage slid to almost equal.

Both great. Weather sealing was my decision on the second one. Slider on the new 7. Current is to up.
 
A couple diagrams with lines describing some possible ground touch points on an upside-down RV.

  1. Roll-bar to nose
  2. Roll-bar to vertical stab
  3. Roll-bar to aft fuse/deck
Tip-Up
RV-7_Tip-Up.jpg


Slider
RV-7_Slider.jpg
 
If or when the noseover occurs, what are the chances the vertical fin will bend or compress, at least some? Then all the conjecturing goes out the window. Build what you like, and fly carefully. Take reasonable precautions. Bottom line is to enjoy the experience. :)
 
I looked very closely at the RV-7s this year at Oshkosh hoping to make a final decision on canopy choice.

I still can't decide since both have pros and cons.

One thing that concerns me about the slider is possible damage to the fiberglass work from people getting in and out and I'm wondering if this is an issue for you sliders guys or not?

It seems to me that to get in and out of the slider, the easiest way, or most natural way, for people to do it is to put on hand on the canopy bow and the other hand on the opened canopy, and then support your weight as you lift your leg to step in. This seems like it could very easily damage the fiberglass around the canopy bow. If someone is wearing a ring perhaps scratches might start appearing there also.

Is this true? Even if you tell people not to lean here or there, they will still do it because that's just the natural place to put your hands.

What yuz thinks?
 
s10sakota said:
One thing that concerns me about the slider is possible damage to the fiberglass work from people getting in and out and I'm wondering if this is an issue for you sliders guys or not?
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Yes...it's an issue. Brief people until you're blue and they'll still try and bend the fairing. Fiberglass tends to spring back to the correct position. Still, making the fairing from aluminum has its advantages.

That's a mod that I'm happy to have made.

Dan
 
Get what you like best. I walk passengers through the entry/exit step by step so they put their hands where I tell them. If they reaching for something that they shouldn't then I stop them. If I know the individual is ham fisted then I am that much more controlling in telling them what to do.
 
I think someone else said it, "Get what you want."

I wanted a slider, that is what I have, I like it a lot.

I installed handles on the windshield support to keep people from grabbing the fiberglass. I made my fiberglass too thin. (2-layers) It has been bumped and cracked the paint but it is still fine but not as pretty as it could be.

IF you want a slider, I recommend handles on the windscreen roll bar and 3 or 4 layers of glass as a minimum. 1 layer of carbon fiber sandwiched between glass may be perfect.
 
What "if" you turn the airplane on it's top, which do you think would protect you the most?

Dave
 
[email protected] said:
What "if" you turn the airplane on it's top, which do you think would protect you the most?

Dave
Click to expand...

My personal feeling is that the slider will protect the front seat occupants' heads a slight little bit more. With either one, you're going to need a good 5-point belt harness holding you down into the seat in a flip-over. I have inertia-reels on my shoulder belts and I'm convinced they'll do absolutely diddly-squat in a flip-over.... and probably only slightly better than that in a forward level motion crash. :rolleyes:

Either way carrying some kind of tool to bust out the canopy would be a good idea... I've been carrying this one with me lately:
http://www.estwing.com/ao_leather_sportsmans_axe.php
T_ao_leather_axe.jpg
 
Tip-up

I had a situation during my flight training where I couldn't see a runway at a class C airport AT NIGHT because of the verticle support between the doors and windscreen of the Cessna 152. If you've ever flown at night, you know how bright the runways can be. For me, visibility is a top safety issue in an aircraft. The slider puts two obstructions in your view unless you are constantly moving your head back and forth.

My two cents.
 
OP here.
Since starting this thread I have bought a slider.
While I am accustomed to flying the bubble canopy of my Lancair, I really do not mind the visual obstructions. The fiberglass lip of the windscreen frame is fragile and does show some damage. It will likely need some additional work at some point. I like not having to worry about rain entering the hinge of a tip up.
 
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