What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Learning to Fly....In an RV?

K

kbonline1968

I'm New Here
I have not finished my PPL yet....but I have the funds to start an RV. Everyone I have talked to has advised me against it...but would anyone or has anyone every taken primary instruction in an RV?

I'm thinking of building a 9A, letting a friend (RV7 driver) fly off the 25 hrs - then finish my instruction in the plane.

Has it been done?

Kevin
 
I don't recommend it! For one thing, you can't do all necessary testing in 25 hrs. And you don't need a low time pilot in a low time airplane. Just my $.02. Go beat up someones Cessna or Piper before you hop into your RV.
 
Dittos on what Mel wrote. RVs are what you fly after you've already learned at least basics. Don't want to see another "A" on it's back.

Roberta
 
Agreed - if you've got the funding to build a 9A right now, then you would be well advised to fly a rental 152 for 70 or 90 hours and put the wear and tear on that airplane for your "learning curve". Start building now and get your PPL in their rental while your building.
 
I received my PSEL in my RV7/A. I had two great instructors. There is nothing special about flying an RV. You learn to fly what ever you fly in. My instructions to them were - DO NOT LET ME WRECK MY PLANE. We spent a little extra time working on landings. I now have 200 hours on the plane. I did get 2 of my friends to fly-off the 40 hours. I would not recommend trying to build and taking lessons, unless you are retired and single. Get your RV9 done. Learning to operate it is no big deal.

Ken
 
While the "learn to fly something else" advice is sound, practical advice, it depends on your natural flying skill level also, so I have to agree with Ken. It never hurts to learn to fly a few different aircraft either, so it would be money well spent.

Personally, I learned how to fly ultralights first (1,000 hours), recieved my ultralight license, became an ultralight instructor (so I could take "students") then got my PPL in 28 days in a 172. I literally had to circle the airport for a 1/2 hour (to burn up time) so I could land and pick up my examiner & take my practicle exam. I then went back to flying ULs for 6 months while I looked for an RV.

I transitioned from the ultralights to RV-9A in 2 hours (required for insurance).

Trust me when I say this, I'm no super pilot either. I would judge my skills as average, but what helped me was all the UL hours.

Again, the prudent thing to do would be to take the others advice, but there are other roads to a PPL.
 
Last edited:
I just finished my PPL in December. Although I don't have nearly as many sweat-equity hours in the build as the RV is my husband's project, I get a lump in my throat thinking about some of the student mistakes that could have been damaging in the RV but were just a little rough in a trainer that is built like a brick and designed to take some extra punishment. I may be alone, but there was a landing or two that I had to check to make sure the wheels were still on the plane. :eek:
 
I get a lump in my throat thinking about some of the student mistakes that could have been damaging in the RV but were just a little rough in a trainer that is built like a brick and designed to take some extra punishment. I may be alone, but there was a landing or two that I had to check to make sure the wheels were still on the plane.
Click to expand...

You're not alone! :) I recall after one session early in my PPL training seeing an A&P poking around the poor little C150 I had been "flying". It was some time later that I realized the instructor had sent him out there to see if the firewall was bent. It wasn't, but I would hate to see an RV mishandled in that manner.
 
Ditto the above comments. Go bang up a trainer. That's what they're there for. In fact...build AND get your ticket in the trainer. Believe me...you'll get your ticket before you finish the airplane. :)

Actually...if I were to do it again...I would probably purchase a C-150 for training and/or currency while building. They're great little airplanes for putting around in, can withstand some abuse and are very economical. In the end you'll come out much cheaper than paying $80.00 - $100.00 /hr for a C-172 that will probably be in worse shape than the 150.

Once you get deep into your RV project you could then sell the C-150 for engine money.
 
kbonline1968 said:
I have not finished my PPL yet....but I have the funds to start an RV. (snip)

I'm thinking of building a 9A, letting a friend (RV7 driver) fly off the 25 hrs - then finish my instruction in the plane.

Has it been done?

Kevin
Click to expand...

It's been done, but you're getting good advice to get your license first. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is to purchase a trainer.

Decent (older) Cessna 150s, Piper Tomahawks, etc can be had for about the price of an appropriate engine for your -9A. Build the RV, but don't buy the engine yet. Buy an older 150 (15-20 $K), build hours, and then sell the 150 to finance the motor at the appropriate time.
 
PPL in an RV

A CAFE Foundation pilot considered this and told Van he thought the RV-8A could be a satisfactory trainer. Van replied that the self-coordinating character of the RV-8 made it unsuitable for teaching rudder usage. I presume this applies to all RV's and agree with Van's conclusion. With very little RV time it seems to me it would be easier to learn to flare and land in a plane like a 150 which has low drag and deceleration in the flare, giving lots of time to feel for the runway. On the other hand, it would probably be possible to get your PPL in a high perf. jet if you had the time and money. Look up the CAFE Foundation report on the RV-8A. Bill
 
The -9 and -9A apparently has a bit more adverse yaw than other RVs, because of the longer wing. So might be better for learning rudder use. Also being slower and gentler in handling, I think the -9/9A might be the best RV for training purposes. Also, i think side-by-side seating is the best arrangement for trainers (Canada used the CT-114 Tutor as the primary jet trainer for a long time, and it had the side-by-side seating. Now they use the BAE Hawk).
 
Check around your area for a school with a DA-20. I rent one from time to time, they have a stick, are economical, comfortable, fun and easy to fly. I was paying about $60/hr with fuel surcharge and sales tax. I had a $35/month membership fee but if you rent enough (like when you are training for your PPL) its worth it. Took me about 45 hours to test.

BTW, I thought I ripped the nose wheel off once too. Strong x-wind on my first solo x-country, which was my second solo flight in all. The wind pushed the nose down at just the wrong time. I still can't believe my CFI let me go in the conditions but oh well both me and the plane made it back in one pc..

Buying a 150 is a good idea if you have the money. A friend of mine bought one for training and sold it 2 years later for a couple grand more than he paid.
If I bought one I wouldn't have had any money to start my 8 so I just keep renting.
Good luck.
 
I considered buying a 150 - found a real gem. But after thinking about it, I've decided to finish in my -9 after maybe just a few more hours (enough to re-solo) in a 152.

Here's what Van's website says on the 9:

The RV-9/9A would make an excellent trainer, and it is easy to envision several ?wannabe? pilots forming a partnership to build the airplane and then learning to fly in it. But unlike most trainers, the RV-9/9A will continue to provide useful performance and fun long after the pilot's certificate is obtained, so there is not the usual need to ?move up? to a more capable, and often much more expensive, airplane.
 
Nosewheel

mdredmond said:
I considered buying a 150 - found a real gem. But after thinking about it, I've decided to finish in my -9 after maybe just a few more hours (enough to re-solo) in a 152.

Here's what Van's website says on the 9:

The RV-9/9A would make an excellent trainer, and it is easy to envision several ?wannabe? pilots forming a partnership to build the airplane and then learning to fly in it. But unlike most trainers, the RV-9/9A will continue to provide useful performance and fun long after the pilot's certificate is obtained, so there is not the usual need to ?move up? to a more capable, and often much more expensive, airplane.
Click to expand...


I think you could learn to fly in a 9a but one seriously botched landing could break your airplane.... After I got my ticket I bent a C152 at 70 hours. One thing I can say for sure, a 152 is a serously strong airplane...Almost tank like compared to an RV.

Purely personally I wouldn't do it.

Frank 7a
 
another thought

Have you checked out what the insurance might be for a student pilot? Do you KNOW of an instructor that will train you in an experimental airplane? Will his liability insurance cover him in an experimantal airplane.

I don't know the answers to these questions but you might find the insurance cost so high it be worth renting a spam can that you can screw up in...And you will screw up!

Frank
 
Frank,

My father-in-law is an ATP+CFII/MEI and yeah, he'd do it. But insurance is definitely a consideration that could make or break the idea.

-matt
 
While I understand the comments, particularly around the 1st 25 hours, plenty of people learn to fly in high performace airplanes with proper instruction.

I and all of my squadron buddies first soled in a T-34C. With something like 60 hours of total time we moved to a multi-engine jet, the T-2C and we were landing on the ship at about 150 hrs total time. Then it was off to the T-A4J to round it all out with a total of about 300 hours of total time.

Maybe the comparison to military training is a stretch, but given the proper conditions, I can't see why you couldn't learn in an RV.....
 
I don't think the comparison to military training is too much of a stretch. I was IP in the trainer world for a few years and taught a lot of low-time pilots to safely fly the T-38 - arguably the most difficult/unforgiving jet the Air Force has (at least in the landing pattern). With proper, disciplined training, you can definitely learn (and get your license) in an RV. I actually think that training in a C-150 may cause you to have to un-learn some things to properly fly your RV. But that's just my opinion - I think everyone should fly their RVs more like F-15s than C-150s, anyway - just because we can...
 
Hostage46 said:
While I understand the comments, particularly around the 1st 25 hours, plenty of people learn to fly in high performace airplanes with proper instruction.

I and all of my squadron buddies first soled in a T-34C. With something like 60 hours of total time we moved to a multi-engine jet, the T-2C and we were landing on the ship at about 150 hrs total time. Then it was off to the T-A4J to round it all out with a total of about 300 hours of total time.

Maybe the comparison to military training is a stretch, but given the proper conditions, I can't see why you couldn't learn in an RV.....
Click to expand...


I don't think that the issue is whether or not the RV's would train good pilots - you can learn to fly in just about anything if you have the right instruction, and end up a good pilot. In my mind, the issue is that you might beat up your brand new airplane in the process. Military aircraft - particularly trainers - are built a whole lot more rugged than most light airplanes. Compare the gauge of metal and the size of castings. RV's are solid airplanes, but nothing like the much heavier military machines.

Paul
 
Washout

As a CFI since 1969, I agree that basic could be given in an RV and I'd also agree that aerobatics could be included, as the Military does. One caveat though, you can't "washout" a guy who owns his own RV :cool: The difference being that in Military flying they're paying YOU to learn to fly whereas just the opposite is true for civilians. :) As a CFI, what would your recourse be if you realize that you're training a clutz? Be honest and suggest he reconsider this and go for a C-150? Maybe tell him he's a sure-fire candidate to bend his future RV? Ask me how I know.. ;)

Regards,
 
I'm not going to ask!

pierre smith said:
As a CFI since 1969, I agree that basic could be given in an RV and I'd also agree that aerobatics could be included, as the Military does. One caveat though, you can't "washout" a guy who owns his own RV :cool: The difference being that in Military flying they're paying YOU to learn to fly whereas just the opposite is true for civilians. :) As a CFI, what would your recourse be if you realize that you're training a clutz? Be honest and suggest he reconsider this and go for a C-150? Maybe tell him he's a sure-fire candidate to bend his future RV? Ask me how I know.. ;)
Click to expand...

Pierre is right on point here. Primary instruction can be given in most anything with dual controls. I once took a fellow thorugh his private in his brand new Aztec (that kinda dates the story, dosen't it :) ) But the logic of using a rented trainer is sound. Why risk your new pride and joy? When it comes to primary instruction a 150/152 is wonderful. The transition will be a piece of cake.

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U
KSBA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top