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  #11  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:42 AM
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Veetail88 Veetail88 is offline
 
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Well thanks for all the information guys. I pretty much knew the question was a pretty complex and regulated one, but I hadn't seen anything about the particulars. Again, I can count on the brain trust here for information.

All that said, if I were to end up doing something really stupid and ending up in the soup, you can bet your backside I'll be using the "not certified" IFR capabilities in my AFS 4500 and GPS puck to save my bacon!

Thanks again!
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  #12  
Old 04-05-2019, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalinHdz View Post
The difference in requirements and certification between a simple GPS position source and GPS navigator is huge ($$$$) and something no experimental company can afford.

Well Dynon can afford it or at least their owner can. Question is does he think it is a good investment or not?
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sglynn View Post
So for example
However, now I see Dynon is getting their HDX box legal to install into Production Planes like Beech V35. I wonder if that will make the GPS side of Dynon's system legal for IFR /G?
The HDX is becoming legal to install in certificated aircraft. It is not certified as a NAVIGATOR but rather as an INDICATOR to replace ASI, ALT, VSI, DG etc. It's installed as a Primary Flight Display, not a navigator. They're two totally different things.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2019, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veetail88 View Post
...All that said, if I were to end up doing something really stupid and ending up in the soup, you can bet your backside I'll be using the "not certified" IFR capabilities in my AFS 4500 and GPS puck to save my bacon!..
In that case ihat's an emergency so you're legally ok to use whatever means you have to get out of it as you see fit so use EVERYTHING including your iPad, iPhone, handheld GPS , use everything !
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2019, 11:33 AM
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Another way to think about this is the ADSB WAAS sensor is just like your iPhone and the Map app. It shows where you are exactly.

The IFR, TSO'd Navigator is like having a super fancy Waze app or the Map directions app, but a lot more specific in that it's 4D (lat, long, altitude, speed and time) and compares that 4D with a certified database to provide IFR track/path guidance via specific course deviation indicators and annunciation capability (track, path, reduced signal, etc). The annunciation feedbacks provide QA and SA to the pilot (where are they, where are they going, how does that compare to the procedure). The database is a big deal as it has pilot selectable approaches that are validated and not easily susceptible to pilot data entry errors, etc. The VFR moving map with a course line drawn on it is no where near as assured / validated / standardized enough to provide performance assurance to navigate in the IFR system. If it were, well, it would probably be TSO'd.

The navigator "uses" position data to put a stake in the ground but then earns it's keep by going to work. Accurate position is required, but non WAAS is still accurate enough for high minimum, non-precision approaches, because the navigator is still working hard to provide all the quantified guidance in the proper format still. There are higher mins associated with a non WAAS navigator but it can be IFR.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie P View Post
Another way to think about this is the ADSB WAAS sensor is just like your iPhone and the Map app. It shows where you are exactly.

The IFR, TSO'd Navigator is like having a super fancy Waze app or the Map directions app, but a lot more specific in that it's 4D (lat, long, altitude, speed and time) and compares that 4D with a certified database to provide IFR track/path guidance via specific course deviation indicators and annunciation capability (track, path, reduced signal, etc). The annunciation feedbacks provide QA and SA to the pilot (where are they, where are they going, how does that compare to the procedure). The database is a big deal as it has pilot selectable approaches that are validated and not easily susceptible to pilot data entry errors, etc. The VFR moving map with a course line drawn on it is no where near as assured / validated / standardized enough to provide performance assurance to navigate in the IFR system. If it were, well, it would probably be TSO'd.

The navigator "uses" position data to put a stake in the ground but then earns it's keep by going to work. Accurate position is required, but non WAAS is still accurate enough for high minimum, non-precision approaches, because the navigator is still working hard to provide all the quantified guidance in the proper format still. There are higher mins associated with a non WAAS navigator but it can be IFR.
Good analogy !
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