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  #31  
Old 08-29-2017, 07:29 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
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Default curious

"...who after retirement saved himself twice with whole-aircraft chutes..."

Just curious, what situations prompted the deployment of the chutes?
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2017, 08:01 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
"...who after retirement saved himself twice with whole-aircraft chutes..."

Just curious, what situations prompted the deployment of the chutes?
One control disconnect (broken component), one structural failure of a wing under high load.
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:52 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Default

I'll chime in again from the perspective of an owner of a different amateur-built aircraft type...

Glasair is offering a whole-airframe parachute for the Sportsman. I don't have many details however it is an available option. This might be part of Glasair's plan to certify the Sportsman (perhaps same reasoning as Cirrus).

The Sportsman would seem well-suited to a parachute since its 4130 steel tube "cage" provides excellent opportunities for transmitting the airframe loads to the 'chute risers.

I've flown a Cirrus simulator and pulled the 'chute. It was an interesting experience, to say the least. It takes a lot more to pull that handle than one would think - the handle is also connected to engine controls to ensure the engine is shut down as the 'chute is deployed.

From a personal perspective I can see the value of a whole-airframe parachute, especially as a person who enjoys flying at night, and who has a strong aversion to being upside down in water. Would I retrofit one? I'm not sure.
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:15 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
The Sportsman would seem well-suited to a parachute since its 4130 steel tube "cage" provides excellent opportunities for transmitting the airframe loads to the 'chute risers.
What just occurred to me reading this is that the structure of the passenger compartment is really all you care about... If any other structure is bent or broken because you pull the chute, who cares? You made the decision to write the airplane off before you pulled the handle. So beefing up a Sportsman or an RV-10 may only need localized reinforcement around the immediate cabin.

I admit, i'm not convinced about the necessity of a parachute. It still seems to me that most of the situations where the chute was used still boil down to "you shouldn't have been in that situation anyway" before the chute was pulled, and the times people have died without using it all get pointed at by people asking "why didn't they use the chute?" Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:42 PM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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Location: Landing field "12VA"
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Default the whole upside down after ditching thing

I've read the threads about James Bond's mini-SCUBA rescue devices, etc.

Wondering what it would take in terms of effort/cost/weight to put enough flotation in an RV to keep it afloat awhile, even upside down, to allow egress assuming occupants were uninjured and doors operating normally.

How many ping pong balls in the wings? How many inflated condoms? How much expanding foam? Seal the holes in the tailcone/wing bays enough to allow control movement and very slow ingress of water? Inflatable raft in the back to yank if you ditch but leave in place behind the baggage bulkhead?

It would be nice to know the actual liquid displacement of a flooded/submerged RV. All calcs would have to start from there.
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:49 PM
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1001001 1001001 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Just Minutes from KBVI!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd View Post
I've read the threads about James Bond's mini-SCUBA rescue devices, etc.

Wondering what it would take in terms of effort/cost/weight to put enough flotation in an RV to keep it afloat awhile, even upside down, to allow egress assuming occupants were uninjured and doors operating normally.

How many ping pong balls in the wings? How many inflated condoms? How much expanding foam? Seal the holes in the tailcone/wing bays enough to allow control movement and very slow ingress of water? Inflatable raft in the back to yank if you ditch but leave in place behind the baggage bulkhead?

It would be nice to know the actual liquid displacement of a flooded/submerged RV. All calcs would have to start from there.

Maybe just assemble the whole airframe with Proseal, and install some additional solid bulkhead ribs to allow for watertight compartments?
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  #37  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:51 PM
YellowJacket RV9 YellowJacket RV9 is offline
 
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Location: Clearwater, FL / KZPH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
I admit, i'm not convinced about the necessity of a parachute. It still seems to me that most of the situations where the chute was used still boil down to "you shouldn't have been in that situation anyway" before the chute was pulled, and the times people have died without using it all get pointed at by people asking "why didn't they use the chute?" Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
When it comes time to pull the chute, I don't think it matters whether or not you "should have been" in that situation. You can worry about that on the ground, alive. I can just about guarantee that all of us (even - or especially - those who profess superior piloting and decision making skills) have been in situations where, had things gone bad, people could say "he/she shouldn't have been in that situation". Fly long enough, and outside the pattern, and things happen, even to the best of us. Usually we luck out, but not always.

We can either recognize that we are fallible beings, and prepare for our own screw ups, or keep telling ourselves that we are the one pilot in the world who never makes a bad call.

Of course, we could always go the opposite route. An economist once suggested the best way to make cars safer would be to remove all protective devices and then put a big metal spike sticking out of the steering wheel. Imagine how safe we would all drive then! Maybe we can rig a self-destruct device that activates as soon as it detects low fuel, VFR into IMC, etc!

Chris
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  #38  
Old 08-29-2017, 05:06 PM
upperdeck upperdeck is offline
 
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Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
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My uncle and his passenger are two of the saves included in the Cirrus statistics referenced above. In his case, he was in IMC, in the mountains, and encountered a wind sheer. Parachute activated and lowered the airplane into the treetops. They were both injured but only after trying to extricate themselves from the treetops where the airplane came to rest. I am certain they are still alive because of the parachute.

Incidentally, his aircraft was bought out by the insurance company. But it was salvaged and lived to fly another day. Just another point of view... your aircraft may be saved in addition to your life.
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  #39  
Old 03-26-2018, 06:22 PM
TimJRV10 TimJRV10 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Darwin, MN USA
Posts: 34
Default Updates on the BRS for the RV-10?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoprat View Post
For those interested in installing a BRS chute in their RV10, I have some good news. Several builders, including myself, have signed purchase agreements which has gotten the design and engineering phase started. Should see the first kits by the first of the year or before. I'll send updates as the process progresses.

Bruce McGlamery
Winter Springs, FL
Any updates on the engineering progress? Will this require an aftermarket fuselage top to hide the cables?

Tim
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  #40  
Old 03-27-2018, 05:54 AM
shoprat shoprat is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winter Springs, FL
Posts: 13
Default BRS Update

Tim, Here is the current update. Send me your email address and I'll send you a copy of the install manual. That will answer all your questions.
bmcglamery@embarqmail.com


The delay occur because we had a few problems with the prototype aircraft (but we already solve it), and the schedule of the BRS engineer (due to his work schedule, he couldnít get here sooner).
But Iím happy to inform that the date for the Ground Extraction Test is defined and it will happen during the first week of April (3 to 5).

We received the GET kit and we are on the final preparation for do the test, and deliver the Parachute for the RV10.
Iím sending to you the Preliminary PIM Ė Parachute Installation Manual. The final version will be far more complete, with a lot more photos and step-by-step detailed to ensure easy installation.

I will keep you informed during the execution of the GET (you can follow the live info that we will start to film on our Instagram profile: @brsparaquedas)
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