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The Perfect RV-8

RV-Guy

I'm New Here
Hi All.

I'd like to say a pre-emptive THANK YOU for any and all responses.

I've just completed my PPL here in little 'ol Australia.

I've decided that the plane for me is an RV8 (partially because i'm too big to fit into a lot of 2-seater planes @ 6'4" 260lb with very broad shoulders... not to mention the RV8 is a super-cool plane and does everything i want a plane to do.

So I need your help please:

If everyone could throw in their 2-cents worth on how they would spec-out their idea of the perfect 8 -

I want it to do touring, take a friend up here and there, do the odd barrel roll (no extreme aero), cruise economically and fast (if thats isn't an oxymoron), and just be a pleasure to fly.

Things i'd love opinions on include:

- engine choice (considering power vs. weight)
- prop choice
- instrument choice (Dynon vs Garmin vs MGL) considering i want to set up the plane for IFR
- tinted vs. clear canopy
- anything else more experienced people can think of...

I hope i don't start any fights! I appreciate any opinions. Thanks again.

Nathan
 
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Hi Nathan

I'll kick off ;)

Given your weight, and the need to do 2 up aeros, and what is good practice anyway for a "fun" RV, build it light. Whilst there are options (usually costly) to change required components to lighter versions, the easiest way to build light is to not build in things you do not really need :eek:

Every time an option / choice / decision comes up, the first question in your mind should be "how much will it weigh"? Even before "do I need it", or "how much does it cost"!

Next piece of advice, which will help lower cost / lighter weight, is build it as per plans. There are not many "mods" which are universally seen as "a good thing", and whilst Vans have some strange ways of doing a few things, they usually have stood the test of time. Going "off piste" from the plans usually costs time, weight and money for less benefit than perceived.

That said, here are some specifics I would offer as suggestions:
  1. P-Mags are lighter than Mags, simple to fit, will give you better economy, and do not require a redundant electircal system.
  2. The 180HP Parallel valve engine as a starting point is lighter, offers upgrades to 190HP+, than using the Angle Valve as the base. 160HP is still more than adequate for an RV-8.
  3. Grove gear legs, especally the standard ones, offer great weight savings as a simple "switch" from the Vans legs.
  4. Andair fuel valve rather than Vans
There are many more questions you could be asked, but given:
do the odd barrel roll (no extreme aero)
you do not need Inverted Oil or Fuel, at best some sort of breather trap/tank to reduce belly cleaning.

The big debates elsewhere to consider:
  1. VP v FP Prop
  2. Fuel Injection v Carb
  3. IFR capable v VFR
  4. Vertical v Horizontal Induction - where your percievied "looks" of the cowlings is likely the starting point.
The first question you need to answer, since it is needed as an option on the Empennage Kit, is Electric v Manual Trim. I prefer manual, but that is not typical, and electric is actually probably a little lighter? The next question is Nav Lights v Night/IFR/VFR - if you do not need a tail light in the rudder, you can get a cleaner rudder bottom fairing with the Emp Kit with no lighting mould (which could likely take a slim LED light if needed).

PS My personal view for light/cheap builds is avoid any avionics that start with the letter 'G'. They seem to weigh and cost far more than other letters for some reason...
 
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Nathan, welcome to VAF!

I'm sure you'll get a lot of information here. I will paraphrase someone else's line is saying "build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build".

As a counter point to many builders, I have a 150HP fixed pitch RV-8. Its a joy to fly.

Any is right - keep it light. I keep working on weight reduction It would be easier if the weight were not there to begin with.
 
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Hi Andy and Ellie,

Thank you very much for kicking-off my replies with lots of very good information and points to consider. I definitely want to go injected with VP... and as far as induction goes - well im happy to go with whichever option offers better performance (if there is a difference)

Thanks again,

Nathan
 
Thanks Glen,

More food for thought, thank you. I suppose i need to learn the difference in performance vs the difference in weight with certain variables:

- prop performance vs prop weight
- engine power/performance vs engine weight

Please keep the comments coming. All greatly appreciated.

Nathan
 
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Fixed pitch

Nathan, I've flown both fixed and CS. The nose is very heavy with a CS and it's really not needed. A three blade Catto is what we used on our -6A and got 201 MPH TAS consistently, at 2750 RPM. Takeoff was slightly longer but always less than 1,000' and a delight to fly such a light airplane.

Best,
 
Hi Nathan,

I kept it simple. Lycoming 180hp,carb, Catto prop.

I fly off 2000 ft grass runways on hot days with a couple of 200lb people and don't have any problems.

The plane is a joy to fly and what ever you decide, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

Good luck.
 
I definitely want to go injected with VP...
I would counter Pierre's (sorry!):
The nose is very heavy with a CS and it's really not needed
For some people / "missions" C/S is needed, and for others not. The CG is not an issue - there are plenty of RV-8 build decisions that can influence the CG far more than C/S or not e.g. a Hartzell C/S can be perfectly balanced by a PC680 in the rear location - a Catto FP with PC680 on firewall. The light C/S props (Whirlwind, 2 blade MT) hardly differ in weight from a FP. We have a 76" Hartzell C/S and whilst I say "CG is perfect" [79.02"] (as I would), if I wanted to haul heavy passengers and baggage about I would have aft CG issues.

Thank you very much for kicking-off my replies with lots of very good information and points to consider. I definitely want to go injected with VP...
If there is a perf difference (Horizontal is likely the better) it is small... I'm afraid it will still come down to taste ;)
 
I recommend the Showplanes fastback canopy. The list of advantages is long. Specific to your needs, you get a little extra shoulder room, and increased rear baggage compartment space (actually height).
 
It is all about you.

I agree it is what you like that is a lot of why we build these things. We had the same thoughts when it was time to pick a model. I liked the 7 and thought the wife would too. She picked the 8 as she does not fly and likes to sit in the back read a book or just watch the world go by. I can't say I was sad about that as the 8 is a little more sporty. I was 6'1" tall and 225 lbs. at the time, and the 8 was a lot more comfortable than say a 4. I have much the same mission for the 8 as you set out in your post. I have a good friend in Houston that call his 8 a time machine as it will get you some place in no time at all. We wanted it to be light easy to repair and not to hard on the pocket book to maintain. So here is what we picked out. RV-8A, ECI-IO-360 with their fuel system and 9:1 pistons, Prince P-tip carbon fiber prop, and now a Garmin basic IFR panel- G3x touch 10", auto pilot for those long X-C trips, GMA-340 audio panel and a GNC-255B as we too need too reach out on those long open country flights. Down under is a lot like west TEXAS and I have often wanted to go there and flight the land. You can spend a lot and put all the biggest engines, props, and avionics in a Kit plane, but your idea of keep it basic and light will afford you much more pleaser down the road. Its your dream do what you like, it will work. Yours as always. R.E.A. III #80888

P.S. I forgot about the canopy. There is a spec for the amount of light that can be let through from one side to the other. I do not remember it right now but it was a long time ago. I think it may be on the order 72-75%. This is for Mil. aircraft so you are safer flying at night as well as in the day time. Vans will sell you one, I think one shade lighter than that or clearer. We just contacted the O.E.M. of the canopy and had him make us one to max Mil. tent spec. They did not charge any more for it and sent it to Van"s and Van's put it in with our kit. Yes south TEXAS has a lot of SUN in the summer too......
 
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Nathan,

Congratulations on getting your PPL.

The RV8 is an excellent choice. I bought my RV8 already built and flying. I am very very happy. I got my PPL in 2014.

The guy who built mine was about your size and he put the battery (PC680) on the firewall. It has a Hartzell BA prop with a Titan IO-360. The mags are slick. Gear is standard. It came with a Garmin 430 W and an AFS 4500.

Here's what I think I want to do differently.

1. Hartzell Composite prop (Weight savings and balance)
2. Battery in the back. (I have to carry ballast in back when solo.)
3. Grove gear (Great weight savings)
4. Electronic Ignition (P Mag)
5. AoA (This should be number one on my list.)
6. EFIS Touch (Hard to justify as the AFS 4500 is a remarkable device)

I spoke with Jay Pratt (builds 8's for a living) before buying and he gave me lots of insight. I decided to stay away from the big heavy angle valve engines. The underlining theme is keep it as light as possible.
 
Hi Charlie,

Thank you for all of your feedback and ideas. If you have a contact email address for the RV8 builder i would love to get in touch with him. I definitely want a plane made as i want, but i don't have the time or patience (or skill) to build it myself - so i would like to know its been done right!

Thank you,

Nathan
 
Hi Robert,

Thank you for the great info on the canopy (along with the other great info). You don't have any visibility issues with the darkest legal tint? Id love to see some pics of your plane if you have any on file: [email protected]

Thanks again,

Nathan
 
Any time!

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the great info on the canopy (along with the other great info). You don't have any visibility issues with the darkest legal tint? Id love to see some pics of your plane if you have any on file: [email protected]

Thanks again,

Nathan

I don't have a lot of pictures, but if you just look at a stock F-16, I think that is the Mil. spec tent. The military did a lot of testing a long time ago and found that there was a tent level that would not be to dark as to be unsafe for night flying and that is what we wanted. Day and night flight. You may be able to look up the old NACA reports are someone will know the standard for that spec. I used to hang out with some good test pilots and factory aircraft engineers. I learned a lot from them about how to build for safety. Thanks for the kind words. R.E.A. III #80888
 
Hi Charlie,

Thank you for all of your feedback and ideas. If you have a contact email address for the RV8 builder i would love to get in touch with him. I definitely want a plane made as i want, but i don't have the time or patience (or skill) to build it myself - so i would like to know its been done right!

Thank you,

Nathan

Nathan,

Send me an email and I will get you his contact info. My email address is my VAF screen name with.... @yahoo.com

If I were to add one more item to my wish list it would be the Showplanes Fastback with tipover canopy because it improves visibility, provides more shoulder room, allows easier access to the backside of the instrument panel and it looks really cool. Oh yeah, and some well placed stainless steel where the exhaust and cowl meet along with fire proof material on the engine side of the firewall (reference Dan Horton's RV-8).
 
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