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Tailwheel Upgrade

Tail wheel shipment updates

Fellow builders and flyers.
I wanted to update you all as a couple things have changed.

1. My cell phone is now different after 11 years with the same number. It is now 231-239-3621 and is changed in my signature. My new service could not port the number.....oh well.

2. We are shipping forks at a very good, let me say amazing pace for us.
My brother has jumped in full force and is helping Dad catch up and I believe we will be totally caught up with all orders in the next 4-6 weeks.

This means I am very accurate on estimates for those who have ordered lately.

I have been going back to orders from 2007 that for whatever reason I have been unable to contact the person.
If you never recieved your fork, it was not from lack of effort. Emails change and so do cell numbers. I have been trying and will honor any old orders.
I apologize to for our past timetable.

I truly believe that we will have forks in stock soon.

Dad had a very bad period in March-June and is now on dialysis....but he is in the shop every other day watching Mike, my mom (rosie the rivitor) and myself and is a very tough Quality control manager.

I hope to see many of you at Oshkosh and please say hello.

Now to polish the 8 before the big show....yikes

THanks
DOug jr.
 
your avitar

Dean,
Thanks for the comments....I have to tell you your avitar had me laughing...great choice.
DOug
 
Got my tailwheel yesterday

Thanks, Doug, I'm going out to the shop now to install it!

FYI: I ordered mine in December, so you aren't too far behind in the orders:)
 
I installed a Aviation Products tailwheel on my 8 about a year ago. It has less than 200 hours on it and it is developing slope in the shaft. Slope is Texan for wear. My buddy on the field is having the same problem. His to has less than 200 hrs on it. I have not contacted Aviation products yet about the issue. I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same thing in their tailwheels?
 
Has anyone else had a problem with the self centering key sticking? Mine worked for about 15 hours and now sticks in the depressed position so the tail wheel just free circles. If I remove the assembly, and reinstall, it works fine for a landing or two, but then sticks in the resessed position again. With 800 hours of tailwheel time, its not that big a deal, but guessing some nasty cross wind day, I will regret not figuring out a way to make it work 100% of the time.

Ideas? And no, its not packed with fouled grease. I'd tried it with no-grease, with lots of grease, and will only a little grease on the detent pin. Same result. Help!
Thanks
 
Buff the edges with your scotch bright wheel.

Has anyone else had a problem with the self centering key sticking? Mine worked for about 15 hours and now sticks in the depressed position so the tail wheel just free circles. If I remove the assembly, and reinstall, it works fine for a landing or two, but then sticks in the resessed position again. With 800 hours of tailwheel time, its not that big a deal, but guessing some nasty cross wind day, I will regret not figuring out a way to make it work 100% of the time.

Ideas? And no, its not packed with fouled grease. I'd tried it with no-grease, with lots of grease, and will only a little grease on the detent pin. Same result. Help!
Thanks

Burr's form on the edges through normal use. This is normally the cause of the key sticking in the out position and making it hard to break away. Not sure what could cause it to hang up in the keyway but perhaps a little polishing on the edges or sanding a bit as suggested might work.
 
Tailwheel upgrade

The reason the tailwheel steer locking pin sticks is that wear causes a burr and it sticks in the slot.

I am now making heat treated (hard) locking pins which extend the life of the pin and mating parts.

If interested, give me a call. Jim Winings 317-718-3415 2000+ hrs. in RV-4s; 660 hrs. in F-1 Rocket.
 
Hey Doug, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full, I am trying to get ahold of you to get some information about how to order a tailwheel fork. If you could send me an email at [email protected] that would be great. Thanks alot
-david
 
Tail wheel chain slack

If I remove the slack from the stock RV4 tail wheel chains
what happens in a cross wind landing?
Does the tail wheel pop out of lock and go into full
swivel mode?
Paul Lamar
 
Bell's Tail wheel fork

I just received Doug's Fork.. It is beautfully built, but the bushings are 1/4 inch and too wide for the stock Van's Wheel. Aside from going with an aftermarket wheel what did you guys do? Put washers in or go with purchasing correct sized (3/16") bushings? Just curious because the bushings are brass which I assume are better than the metal washers.
 
I had same issue with Bell fork

I chose to sand down the brass bearings a little on a belt sander mounted upside down. This gave me a relatively flat surface and I was able to grind enough brass away, evenly, to get a good fit. It really didn't take long (120 grit sandpaper)

I can't imagine the force that would be required to try to spring the fork open, so for my part, I don't think that's a good idea.
 
Tail Wheel Bushings

For some reason there seems to be some variation in the "thickness" of the tailwheels at the bearing faces that Van's supplies. I had the same issue and contacted Mr. Bell and he sent me some correct sized bushings for my tail wheel. I talked with Van's and they did not have any explanation on why some wheel assemblies are thicker than others. The standard face to face dimension on a vans tailwheel should be 2.25 inches...mine was 2.4...Flyboys also have tailwheels that are 2.25 inches...
 
tail wheel chain slack

If I remove the slack from the stock RV4 tail wheel chains
what happens in a cross wind landing?
Does the tail wheel pop out of lock and go into full
swivel mode?
Paul Lamar
hi paul: i believe van's install instructions are; 1" slack in the stock tailwheel chains.this may be for cross wind landings? my tailwheel experience is not in rv's. i prefer some slack in the tailwheel chains.
looking at a search,this seems to be a personal preference.
......lawrence.....
 
We carry stainless steel shim washers for those who have a gap. Cheap, easier than new bushings, and last forever.

Side play is different and may require a new bushing if bad enough.

tailwheel stuff
 
Current tailwheel preference?

I have read through this thread a few times and would like to get some current feedback and opinion.

I am running the stock setup on my RV6 except for the tire and wheel. It is the aluminum three spoke mag style with the solid rubber that starts out pretty square and flat (I don't remember who made it).

My inspection is due in september and I would like a bit more clearance, reduced weight and thought I ask and see what the current wisdom and experience has to say.

I am thinking along the lines of the bell fork, and a solid left side only link? I don't know for sure who makes what so please chime in with your thoughts.

Thanks, jim
 
Flyboys Accessories fork and wheel.

Vince sells one that gives much better ground clearance. He's great to work with and stands behind his products. Highly recommended
 
+1 for Vince's fork. I use that fork and no tail wheel steering at all (fully castoring). God clearance, very responsive, great in a cross wind, nothing to damage the bottom of your rudder.
 
... I am running the stock setup on my RV6 except for the tire and wheel. It is the aluminum three spoke mag style with the solid rubber that starts out pretty square and flat (I don't remember who made it).

My inspection is due in september and I would like a bit more clearance, reduced weight and thought I ask and see what the current wisdom and experience has to say.

I am thinking along the lines of the bell fork, and a solid left side only link? I don't know for sure who makes what so please chime in with your thoughts.

Thanks, jim

I think you probably already have the lightest tailwheel itself that's available... sounds like its a DJM tailwheel from your description of alloy with 3 spokes.

I'm not 100% sure but I think both the Bell-style tailwheel fork and the Screaming Eagle fork give approximately the same amount of increased ground clearance over the stock Vans fork, and that they all 3 weigh very similar too. If anybody knows the exact weights of all three forks, I'd like to know for certain too. This is an upgrade I'd like to do as well.

The "Rocket Link" in lieu of chains is the only way to go, IMHO.

I've got about 25 hours in an RV-4 and a couple flights in a -6 with chains, and about 100 hours in an RV-8 with the Rocket Link, and my new RV-6 also came with a Rocket Link, and I can't stand chains now.
 
Thanks for the kind words guys!

FWIW, we do have plenty of tailwheel forks, tires, and other stuff in stock and ready to ship. Right now, the only thing not in stock is the RV/Rocket steering link. We should have a new batch of those in a few weeks.

Also, for Ken and any others who have any problems or any needs whatsoever with anything we make, please feel free to drop us an email. We do our best to take care of any issues no matter how small.

Thanks again!
 
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Gust lock?

Guys,

Can the rocket link function as a gust lock when parked with the fork locked aft?

Thanks for all the info...
 
Can the rocket link function as a gust lock when parked with the fork locked aft?

It actually does that... but only up to a certain point in wind & gust speeds. If a gust comes along that is strong enough to unlock the steering pin, then it'll surely be strong enough to inflict some damage to the rudder or other parts if not also secured by a real gust lock.

For light winds that would just otherwise make the rudder flop around if it wasn't somehow secured, the rocket link does do a pretty good job as a rudder gust lock, but if you anticipate strong gusts, you'd best use a real rudder gust lock.

For example, mine held just fine camping at Oshkosh for any of the milder storms we experienced Sunday thru Thursday morning, but I doubt it would've held thru that big nasty wall-cloud looking storm that blew thru Thursday afternoon, flipping planes, knocking down tents, etc. Thankfully I was gone by noon that day, and missed that excitement.
 
Just to bring these all together... Here's the stock Vans fork, photo from bowenaero.com. Note that the bottom of the pivot is below the axle of the wheel. For a 6" wheel, this is about 2.5" of clearance.
1711476334130.png

Here's the Vince / Screaming Eagle / SE fork. Note the increased clearance as the bottom of the pivot is now raised above the axle of the wheel (green line), and the remaining hardware above that can catch on obstructions (red line). It looks like about 3.5"-4" ground clearance for a 6" wheel.
1100-2T.jpg
1711476178781.png

Here's the Bell fork. Note that almost the entire wheel is exposed to the front (green line). The bottom of the pivot is only just slightly below the top of the tire. The only remaining thing that can catch now is the vertical part of the stock Vans knuckle on the stinger (red line). This would be about 5" clearance on a 6" wheel.
RV-Pic%27s-001.jpg

1711477100884.png

And finally, here's the API fork, also linked from bowenaero.com. Note even better clearance over the Bell fork... The bottom of the pivot appears to be just at or above the top of the wheel, for about 6" of clearance for a 6" wheel, and the pivot itself doesn't hang as far below the stinger. This does require match drilling the holes in your stinger to the new knuckle.
1711476254761.png

They all work on smooth pavement. But I think the photos speak for themselves... The Bell and API forks definitely have the edge on clearance. If you did get a tailwheel behind something, like a block of concrete, the first thing to hit as you tried to move forward would be the wheel, which would roll. On the others with lower pivots, if you hit something, it's metal hitting the object, which could bind and lock you in position.

Disclaimer: I have a Bell fork on my -6, but have no financial interest in any of these suppliers
 
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One advantage of Vince's fork is the very easy mounting of Van's tailwheel fairing with this fork.

Chicks dig it and Worth 12 KIAS too!
 
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It actually does that... but only up to a certain point in wind & gust speeds. If a gust comes along that is strong enough to unlock the steering pin, then it'll surely be strong enough to inflict some damage to the rudder or other parts if not also secured by a real gust lock.

Actually it should not be possible to unlock the steering pin unless the tailwheel is significantly displaced sideways. This is the point of a locking tailwheel; it is strong enough to steer the airplane on roll-out which applies considerable force on the pin. However, if the notch in the control arm is worn out then the pin could release more easily. I've replaced one control arm already because of this wear.

I do rely on the rudder link as a gust lock and its worked fine. If a tornado comes all bets are off.
 
Tail wheel

Vince's tail wheel fork exposes 1/2 or a little more of the tire. If you hit something deeper than 1/2, the tire is not going to roll over; it is going to hang up. If you are going into this rough an area, you need a larger diameter tire. I have custom made a couple of forks for larger tires. Compare the frontal area which means drag. I think Vince has a good tail wheel & fork. I might be biased since I designed the fork.

I make heat treated (hard) locking pins also that will not wear or get a burr nearly as bad. Jim Winings
 
Sodbuster is 100% correct. The extra "clearance" of the Bell or API (both are very fine products) won't make the tire roll over an obstacle that exceeds about 1/2 of the tire height.

Also, obstacles that tall could be very hard on your wheel pants (main gear) also! If you're hitting stuff that tall, you might want to find a different airport!

We have tailwheel forks, tailwheel tires, replacement parts, and lots of other goodies, in stock and ready to ship virtually 100% of the time. We strive to keep all of our products in stock.

FWIW, in my opinion, the Screaming Eagle's tailwheel fork has 2 advantages over the others. 1) it is a bit sleeker since it is made from sheet steel instead of rod steel 2) for the ultimate in drag reduction, you can install a Van's type tailwheel pant on our fork and it will still full-swivel as designed.

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OTOH, all of the retrofit forks perform better than the stock Van's fork.

Thanks,
 
In general I've found that potholes are my biggest worry... They're generally not perfectly square-sided, but they can be steeply sloped. The Bell and API will crawl out of a deeper hole in that case.

The other place where it helps is when you taxi to the side of the runup area and mis-judge the distance to the edge of the pavement... Again the drop off isn't usually perfectly square, so with a Bell or API fork you're more likely to pull out of there without having to shut down and get out to lift the tail.
 
The Screaming Eagle fork is functionally equivalent under those conditions. Taxiing back onto pavement was one of the primary reasons it was designed as it is.

FWIW, we're working on a new fork with a slightly larger tire for those who just gotta "off-road" their RV. It will be virtually identical to the current design, just a slightly larger version of what we have now. We have seen no need to change the fork configuration, just the footprint of the tire.

There is no timetable for release until much testing of the new tire is complete. Finding the right tire is the hardest part of getting the complete package together.
 
Hey Vince, do you know what the weights of the different tailwheel forks are?

My guess is that the stock Van's and the Screaming Eagle probably weight very close to the same. An old VAF thread I found in a search a few days ago seemed to suggest the Bell fork weighs a couple ounces more than the stock Vans.
 
The Screaming Eagle bare fork weighs about 16 ounces. I don't have any of the others here right now, but if I recall, the Van's fork is about 15 ounces.
 
Bell tailwheels still going strong

Just posting a quick note to let anyone who may want to know that the Bell tailwheel is still available and in stock ready to ship.
I see a few posts from guys that they cannot find us. I apologize for that as we have always been here and available by my email [email protected]
Summer is hard for me as I am not on the forums much...I run a golf resort.
Many have seen that my father did pass away this summer on July 4th.
At the time we had just recieved in a batch of forks from our machine shop and were finishing them. After everything settled down from Dad's passing, we are ready to ship. My mother is still excited to get these forks out and assisted Dad the last few years. My brother and I assist her now.
So, the fork is the same quality and is ready to go. Vince and the others that make forks are doing a fine job as well.
If you are interested in a "Bell" fork....please contact me at the email above.
My cell is the other option at
231-239-3621
Thanks
Doug
 
Doug, I too was sorry to hear of your dad's passing. It's very nice to have your family to help out. I'll bet they help with the golf resort too.

On a related family note, recently our youngest son, Blake, graduated from USI (cumma sum laude!) with a marketing degree. Lately he's been bitten by the flying bug and as of May has largely taken over the Flyboy empire. It's great to have him on board and helping out... actually he's doing everything except the fabrication! And that's a LOT!

He's a whiz with the graphics, the computer, learns faster than you can imagine, and is very tech savvy.

Blake's plan is to grow the business until it gives Jim Irwin (ACS) nightmares. I hope he does it! :)

So, if anyone calls and hears a strange voice on the phone, it's just Blake. I'll be around making parts, as usual, in the unlikely event there are questions that he can't answer.
 
Doug and Vince (Blake)

I have the Bell tail wheel fork and Blake did the graphics for my paint scheme. You can't go wrong with either fork and both are far superior to what comes with the kit.

Vince and Blake are super to work with if you're in the planning stages of your paint scheme. They have lots of other goodies too!

I highly recommend these guys.:)
 
Tailwheel

Question about titanium stinger , I know it would be lighter (not good on most 8's) but what is the spring properties of titanium ? I have a great hightec machine shop next to me and having small runs is not a problem.
 
I think the lightweight titanium tailwheel stingers would mostly benefit those of us with aft cg issues (e.g.wood props, O-320 engines), but if I could find find one for the $200-250 range, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
 
Titanium's springiness is 16/29 that of steel, size for size. This is the ratio of the Young's Modulus, or modulus of elasticity of the two materials, 29 million psi for steel and 16 million psi for titanium.

This means that for the same size, a titanium spring will deflect 181% that of the steel spring.

Titanium's density is in the same ratio. That is, its density is .16 pounds per cubic inch, compared to steel's .29.

Titanium comes in a variety of alloys and heat-treatments. The popular and available Ti-6Al-4V, annealed, has an ultimate strength of around 130,000 psi. This might be considerably lower than a heat-treated steel part. If you know the steel part alloy and heat treatment, you can easily design a titanium replacement. Otherwise it's harder.

Dave
 
API still in business?

I have always had great response from Aviation Products, Ojai, CA. But for several weeks, can't get anyone to answer. Trying to order a replacement T/W.
Thanks
 
How to remove the original yoke

I just bought the new tailwheel assembly, but can't get the original yoke to budge for removal. And yes I removed both of the bolts that hold it onto the tailwheel arm. Any tips/tricks? Thanks!
 
Try heating it with an electric heat gun or lightly with a torch. It’s ether rusted in the socket or perhaps glued in with RED locktight. Whichever is the issue heating will make it release. 500 Fahrenheit for red locktight or red hot for rusted in the joint . If 500* doesn’t work try penetrating oil for several days even make a little trough with HVAC aluminum tape and zip ties to hold a reservoir of oil in/on the frozen joint before resorting to the hot wrench ( ox- acetylene torch). But if you have get it torch hot protect the spring from the heat with wet rags and welding blanket rapped over the wet rags/old towels
 
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