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Taildragger for Night and IFR flying?

I wonder if the higher insurance rates for taildraggers is simply because of pilot experience. It sounds like most people that have higher rates in tail draggers have very little time in them compared to the time they have in nose gear airplanes.

It would be interesting to see the rates of a pilot that has the inverse: Multiples of hours more in taildragger than nose gear. I'd gamble that his insurance rates are lower in a taildragger than in a nose gear airplane of the same type.
 
It would be interesting to see the rates of a pilot that has the inverse: Multiples of hours more in taildragger than nose gear. I'd gamble that his insurance rates are lower in a taildragger than in a nose gear airplane of the same type.

A really good question -- and my intuition is just the opposite! :)

The RV-9 is presumably a pretty forgiving taildragger. But the RV-9A is so unbelievably easy to land I can't imagine it would cost more to insure the A for any given pilot -- even a "nosedragger virgin."

Amazingly, however, I have been been wrong before.

Any insurance brokers lurking?
 
I never considered a -A so I didn't get a direct comparison rate. I think the biggest factor is time in type, I initially insured mine for substantially more than what I'm paying now with the same limits. The biggest drop being about $250 on the first renewal (~100 hrs in type), then ~$50 every year since until this year where it ticked up slightly so I'm guessing this is where it will likely level out (6th renewal, although my flying has really dipped lately; only ~20 hrs last year due to having our first kid and a move so that may have an effect too).

For any insurance questions like this I really would call gallagher, they handle many RVs and would likely be able to answer all your concerns.

Edit: I agree with Dugaru, I highly doubt you will ever pay more for a -A, but I would guess they're about equal with enough TW experience.
 
With today's LED super lights, a night landing isn't any different than a day landing. I have zero regrets going taildragger and I had very little taildragger time (or total time for that matter) when I flew its maiden voyage. These are not difficult planes to fly.
 
Night and IFR

I've had a 6A and an 8. Although I've got plenty of tailwheel time, when I got the 6A it was for the same reasons regarding breaking out at night IFR and landing a tailwheel. I was completely wrong. My comparison mentally was with my previous tailwheel plane before the 6A, a Pitts S1S.

After getting the RV-8 I realized that using the wheel landing technique makes the airplane fly like a mini airliner. You can greatly increase approach speeds in order to handle wind gusts or can come in with no flaps at very high touchdown speeds that would simply be impossible with the trike (120 knots is the fastest I've touched down with a long runway and an airliner right behind me). Now I approach at 110 knots down final with 10 degrees of flaps then slow to full flap speed about two hundred feet or so. This is only when landing at large airports with heavy jet traffic, of course.

As for winds, the tailwheel versions will handle just as much as a trike or more. When extremely windy or gusty I land at the upper flap range (80 to 85 knots) on one wheel if a crosswind or the mains otherwise. When speed gets a bit lower, retract the flaps and the tail will come down at a higher speed than normal which improves the transition to tailwheel steering instead of rudder.

Standard tailwheel three points work great when hopping around a grass strip in the afternoons for fun. Very, very capable tailwheel plane with a little practice and easy to land in a wide variety of conditions. This is all to say that I wouldn't let a tailwheel spook you from IFR or night flying. I'd actually prefer it now.
 
You can greatly increase approach speeds in order to handle wind gusts or can come in with no flaps at very high touchdown speeds that would simply be impossible with the trike (120 knots is the fastest I've touched down with a long runway and an airliner right behind me)

120 knots indicated at touchdown for at RV? That seems like a really bad idea. Why not float just above the runway and touchdown at a much lower speed? The total distance needed to land is still far less than the jet.
 
I wonder if the higher insurance rates for taildraggers is simply because of pilot experience. It sounds like most people that have higher rates in tail draggers have very little time in them compared to the time they have in nose gear airplanes.

It would be interesting to see the rates of a pilot that has the inverse: Multiples of hours more in taildragger than nose gear. I'd gamble that his insurance rates are lower in a taildragger than in a nose gear airplane of the same type.

Cube,

I had thousands of hours of nose wheel time and ZERO tailwheel time when I finished my -8.

I am paying 66% cheaper then the first year now that I have a few hundred hours of tailwheel. So my high hour experience did not help me a bit.

Like another poster said, see,s like every 50 or 100 hours makes each year cheaper.
 
Isn't placard speed for 10 degrees of flap 110 MPH for the RV-8?

120 knot touchdown speed seems hard to fathom. What are the tire speed limits? How much prop clearance would you have with the nose attitude that would require?
 
I'm a low time mostly tail wheel guy...

I've got about 160hrs, 139 of which is tailwheel, approximately equally split between a pacer and my -6.

Maybe it's rookie na?vet?, but I believe that I am an infinitely better pilot because of it. When I had trouble getting a check ride in my -6, I had to "learn" to fly a 172 to get my check ride.

My worst landing EVER was in a 172...and it was a non-event. If I had been that sloppy in my -6, or God forbid, the pacer, it would have probably been costly.

I recently started flying my dad's p-ponk'ed 182, and it's a lot of fun. Lots of power, big wing, it makes XC and hauling around a couple buddies a lot of fun, and extremely stress free. Sheesh, trimmed out it kinda flies itself, and as long as I'm generally pointed in the right direction when I touch down, it makes me look like a better pilot than I am. :rolleyes:

My -6 still reminds me occasionally that I can't be complacent, and I like that. I also like my little wheel in the back, I like landing in the grass and dirt, and I like the acknowledgment I get from the "old guys" like my dad who never really went beyond some citabria or cub time to get a tailwheel endorsement.

Buy or build what you want to fly, and know your limits. My personal limits in the -6 get stretched and excercised a little bit occasionally, but I'm still a pretty conservative, cautious guy. My limits might shift a bit with a few hundred more hours under my belt...but I wouldn't trade or go back for anything!
 
Cube,

I had thousands of hours of nose wheel time and ZERO tailwheel time when I finished my -8.

I am paying 66% cheaper then the first year now that I have a few hundred hours of tailwheel. So my high hour experience did not help me a bit.

Like another poster said, see,s like every 50 or 100 hours makes each year cheaper.

Yeah, Is there that big of a difference in insurance for a tailwheel? Are we talking something like double the cost or is it more reasonable?
 
Yeah, Is there that big of a difference in insurance for a tailwheel? Are we talking something like double the cost or is it more reasonable?

I think I was at $3k the first year, then about $2k for a few years and the last couple years $1500, and now about $1100


I am thinking it will now stabilize and be even with the nose wheel airplanes.
 
I think I was at $3k the first year, then about $2k for a few years and the last couple years $1500, and now about $1100


I am thinking it will now stabilize and be even with the nose wheel airplanes.

Awesome. Well thats not TOO bad I don't think. Once the insurance company has some history with you experience it sounds like the rates drop fairly. With my low time (even by the time I get my -7 built) I am preparing for the worst rates. heh. Hopefully with flying the -7 so much my rates would do the same.
 
I'm a 100hr private pilot with zero tailwheel time and zero Vans time. I was quoted $2500/yr for an RV6 at $65k hull coverage. Same coverage for an A model was $1400/yr. Or about a $100/month difference if you want to look at it that way. I don't own yet but have been checking things like this so I know what my costs will be.
Josh
 
Costs...

I think with zero time I paid $1200 the first year with $22k hull value on a pacer, and a little over $1800 for $50k hull -6 after 55 or so pacer hours, but still no ppl. Year two on the rv was just before my checkride, and I had thirty or so hrs in the rv...I don't recall a substantial change at that time. Not sure how it would work for someone who didn't drag out getting a license for three years. :confused:

As an aside, after my checkride, I think it was $270 to add me as named on the 182 with a much higher (probably $130k or so) hull value. They didn't even require xx hours, just a checkout and hi-po sign off with a cfi.

I'd like to think with a lot more hours, checkride done, and a good record, I'd see a drop when I renew, but I've also put a bunch of money in the RV, so I may look at raising the policy limit to cover the upgrades.
 
For most pilots, flying a tailwheel becomes second nature after some hours.. A few pilots never get it. Flying at least weekly helps a lot.

I fly a -7 and fly night and crosswinds.. no ifr as I'm not rated. When I first got the TW endorsement in a 140, night crosswind lands were tough (go arounds were common). 5 years later and it's not even a thought.

The -7 in crosswinds is a lot different than an -8 due to the rudder size. I've found that I often have to fly final and into the flare in a crab in 20+ knot crosswinds. The rudder pedal force is just too high to align the nose with the runway. I can only get the pedal to the floor when it slows down.

Get some TW time (50-100 hrs) and you'll know which is for you. There's not many that are indifferent on the topic.
 
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