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  #11  
Old 03-09-2016, 07:49 AM
6 Gun 6 Gun is offline
 
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I changed out my bottom plugs to NGK about 30 hrs ago by auto boots on Slick harness and running a .025 gap and its running great.I was was looking for a simple way to build a electronic ignition that was cheap and dependable I think this is it. Thank you Dan its like I told you a couple years ago at Thomasville Fly-In your a legend in your on time.Dan could we see a picture of the gear mounted on crank?
Thanks Bob
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2016, 08:30 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Bob, almost anything that provides 35 teeth and a skipped tooth space will work. The Lycoming flywheel has 12 AN4-sized mount points, so for a first pass, I drew this, and Kirk (that's Kirk Harrel, the Mustang II owner) turned it out on his mill. It's a steel plate, 3/16" thick IIRC, cut on a rotary table. It would be real easy to do on a waterjet; hand the operator a .dwg file and a few bucks. Flywheel = gray, trigger wheel = white. A standard Ford pickup points forward (at the sides of the teeth), much like the mount you've seen for hall effect triggers.

BTW, a little design tweaking would save weight, but for those who have rear CG concerns, well....



Make the tooth width the same as the width of the tip of the pickup; that nets a clean sine wave signal for the EDIS module. See the blip on the right? That's the passage of the skipped tooth. This is the signal from a Ford pickup, and the large toothed wheel drawn above....



....and this is the signal from a Nippondenso pickup, with a 36mm diameter wheel made from a cut-down gear...the shop-made mag hole trigger on the previous page:

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Last edited by DanH : 03-09-2016 at 04:07 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2016, 03:00 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Lest anyone think the basic tech is unknown in airplanes, this is a Electroair mag hole trigger...60 teeth less 1, tubular magnetic pickup on left, which can be used with a 36-1 wheel also. It will be same output waveform as in the previous photos, and Electroair sells them in two sizes. Me? I like the ND pickups, reliable and very compact.

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Last edited by DanH : 03-09-2016 at 04:40 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2016, 07:22 PM
SHIPCHIEF SHIPCHIEF is offline
 
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Dan;
I see 36-1 trigger wheels of different diameters for sale on fleabay, intended for the Megajolt market.
What is the diameter of the inside of the Electroair mag hole housing?
This looks like a cost effective and quick timing solution.
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2016, 07:55 PM
Lars Lars is offline
 
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For what it's worth, the Ford Explorer 5.0 (aka 302) V-8 from 1996 to 2001 used EDIS, and had a 36-1 wheel on the harmonic balancer. Probably too small for a Lycoming flywheel though I haven't tried to measure. My experience is from automotive projects using Ford's EEC-IV EDIS.
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2016, 08:26 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHIPCHIEF View Post
Dan;
I see 36-1 trigger wheels of different diameters for sale on fleabay, intended for the Megajolt market.
What is the diameter of the inside of the Electroair mag hole housing?
This looks like a cost effective and quick timing solution.
Not much on Ebay is going to fit the Electroair shaft. The easy way to adapt one to EDIS would be to simply re-machine the existing wheel, which is really a disk about 1/8" thick. Lop off the 59 teeth, cut 35, and slide the pickup inboard a wee bit.

The disk is clamped to the end of the shaft with one allen screw and Loctite. There is a tiny roll pin under the cap to safety rotation, but I'm not real impressed. The pickup just clamps in place with set screws.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2016, 09:57 PM
Frank from Quebec Frank from Quebec is offline
 
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Wow !!! more than a thousand view and 15 answers !!! In a single day !!

You guys rock !!

I'm happy to read that some you tried it and it worked and I am also very happy to see that none of the 1000 viewers thought I was crazy

Thae rest of my aircraft will not be ready to fly for a few months still but the system is debugged on the bench and ready to mount on the motor.

I will share the results with you first, and maybe one day get my act together and build a RV8
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2016, 11:46 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Simple answer: Same family tree, different branches. MegaSquirt started as an open source DIY fuel injection for everyone. At some point ignition control entered the picture as a Megasquirt function, then branched into the idea of a simple "ignition only" controller. Ultimately Autosport's principals put such a unit into production, currently known as the Megajolt/E.

Plenty of good EDIS information can be found on various Megasquirt websites (and some bad; this is, after all, the web). Be aware that Megasquirt will run a variety of different ignition schemes in addition to EDIS, as well as fuel injection.

Autosport's Megajolt/E is EDIS only.

BTW, before someone asks, no, I am not going into the ignition business. Regular readers know I do support all kinds of DIY efforts, as long as it doesn't compromise safety. Here I think the hardware/software is robust enough to fly, so the wild cards are (1) fabrication skill, and (2) installation details like wire routing, connector selection, and software settings. If you have the skills, go for it. If you don't, there is no shame in buying a CPI kit from Ross at SDS: http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm
I have built a Megasquirt based EI and just started installing it on my 320 now that the weather has improved. I didn't realize the Megajolt was out there or may have used it. However, the Megasquirt supports simpler and cheaper coil setups and more flexibility across all components in the system. I am using a nice wasted spark coil pack. Another benefit of MS is that I don't need coil drivers. You can add high current ignition drivers directly on the circuit board. It will also handle fuel injection and it's possible I will experiment with that in the future. Also, I was very familiar with it, as I put one on my old Porsche when I added the turbo (I needed an ability to customize the tune and don't have the skills to burn chips on the old Bosch units). I used a hall effect sensor (MS supports either hall effect or VR) with 3 magnets (4-1 wheel), as that was easiest to fabricate/adapt into an old mag carcass.

Dan, did you make those nice Pick-up units? Any interest in making me a set I don't have a lathe.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 03-10-2016 at 12:05 AM.
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2016, 11:55 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Bob, almost anything that provides 35 teeth and a skipped tooth space will work. The Lycoming flywheel has 12 AN4-sized mount points, so for a first pass, I drew this, and Kirk (that's Kirk Harrel, the Mustang II owner) turned it out on his mill. It's a steel plate, 3/16" thick IIRC, cut on a rotary table. It would be real easy to do on a waterjet; hand the operator a .dwg file and a few bucks. Flywheel = gray, trigger wheel = white. A standard Ford pickup points forward (at the sides of the teeth), much like the mount you've seen for hall effect triggers.

BTW, a little design tweaking would save weight, but for those who have rear CG concerns, well....



Make the tooth width the same as the width of the tip of the pickup; that nets a clean sine wave signal for the EDIS module. See the blip on the right? That's the passage of the skipped tooth. This is the signal from a Ford pickup, and the large toothed wheel drawn above....



....and this is the signal from a Nippondenso pickup, with a 36mm diameter wheel made from a cut-down gear...the shop-made mag hole trigger on the previous page:

My original idea for timing pickup was using those 12 flywheel holes, mounting a magnet in a bolt in 11 of them. That would have given me an 12-1 wheel (12 teeth with one Missing tooth) which is fine for the Megasquirt (total teeth must be divisible by the number of cylinders). That is what I liked about the MS system, you have a lot more options in design, but the cost is learning it and the curve is kind of step, as the documentation is limited and support is tough to get. You need to figure it out on your own, so not for the feint of heart.

I ultimately discounted this alternative, as my pickup sensor would have been open to damage from a broken alternator belt.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 03-09-2016 at 11:59 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2016, 08:23 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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The Squirt boxes are certainly more capable, with many, many more options and choices...but the necessary complexity is also their downside. In contrast, the Autosport/EDIS approach is simple...just couple two boxes with a coil pack and a crank sensor. KIS is good in EAB.

Frankly, I like the OEM Ford module, as I figure it is far more hardened than any aftermarket control.

Quote:
Dan, did you make those nice Pick-up units? Any interest in making me a set I don't have a lathe.
Speaking of reliability, the mag hole triggers do add some mechanical complexity to a reliability assessment. Bearing and shaft fits are examples; do them wrong and reliability suffers. I've also previously reported (in another thread) some possible resonant behavior at a mid teens RPM; the timing light goes a bit fuzzy there. Mags have the same problem, BTW, but we rarely observe it. I'm not worried, as the rotor is both robust and low mass, unlike a mag rotor and internal gearing.

The shaft is taken from a junk Bendix mag; the rotor leaves are removed and the shaft is re-machined. This approach makes it unnecessary to cut the taper, key slot, and threads for the drive gear.

The wheel is a re-cut stock gear. The body is cut from a chunk of 4" billet. Kirk did them while I was making the shaft assemblies, then I detailed them for bearing fit, o-ring groove, reluctor mounting, etc. The ND reluctors came from an RX-7 distributor, which happens to have two of them. My favorite part? The pretty aluminum dust covers. They're cut-down cup holders intended for DIY poker tables.

No, I won't make more. As stated, I'm not going into the ignition business. You're welcome to drawings, in the spirit of open source.



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Last edited by DanH : 03-10-2016 at 08:28 AM.
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