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  #11  
Old 06-10-2017, 11:11 PM
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mfleming mfleming is offline
 
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Location: Joseph, Oregon
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
Someone else who's been drinking long enough for it to sound like a good idea, most likely.
I suppose...

Even at my most foggy moment, that wouldn't sound like a good idea to me.

Very troubling story...
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RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017 (sans fiberglass)
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
  #12  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:50 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Default Vertigo

Quote:
Originally Posted by cguarino View Post
"M" maneuvers? Parabolic arcs? Probably floating the lightweight passenger. Wow!
It was a dark, no moon night and he was at the reported ceiling height...so it sounds like vertigo to me.

Best,
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RV-10, 510 TT
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It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
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Dues gladly paid!
  #13  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:01 AM
esco esco is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
Posts: 337
Default "Protect me and Mine"

For future readers:
If you know someone who is a danger to themselves and others, make them off-limits to those you care about.
This means tough conversations: stand fast for those you love.

I took this route, and my wife is alive; a still-close friend continues to drink, speed, swerve, and clip other cars.
I'll be sad at the funeral, but I'll be standing next to my wife, not looking down at her casket.
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RV-9A sold (I miss that bird!)
RV10 sold (miss that one too!)
Figuring out what's next, and when.
  #14  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:14 AM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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Location: St. Paul, MN.
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So we're done with that rule about being respectful in accident investigations and remembering surviving family members?
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, MN.
Blog: Letters From Flyover Country
Almost ready to start the RV-12iS finishing kit. 480 hours in.

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  #15  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:30 AM
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sprucemoose sprucemoose is offline
 
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Location: MKE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
So we're done with that rule about being respectful in accident investigations and remembering surviving family members?
Not at all, but there does come a time in every such case where the greater good rests in the value to the pilot community in learning from the mistakes of others. In the hours/ days following an accident, it is proper to be deferential to the emotions of the survivors, but that cannot be the overriding factor forever. The release of the final report seems a logical place to make the transition.

While criticism in this case may be especially pointed, it is also well deserved.

All of this is consistent with Doug's posting rules as well:

2. Threads SPECULATING about the causes of a crash/incident before the Probable Cause document is ussued are not allowed here. Offer condolences to the family and friends, of course! Once the governing agency’s PROBABLE CAUSE or FINAL REPORT has been listed online, then by all means we can discuss the mechanics and minutia of the accident until we are blue in the fingers, hopefully learning something that will make flying safer for us. (emphasis mine.)
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RV-6, RLU-1 built & flying
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Last edited by sprucemoose : 06-12-2017 at 06:33 AM.
  #16  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:53 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
So we're done with that rule about being respectful in accident investigations and remembering surviving family members?
On other forums I visit regularly there is little restriction on speculation and discussion of accidents when the memory of the accident is "raw". This does have some issues, including the possibility that family members/friends of the victims may be watching. However, the value of these discussions is immense as it raises awareness of potential accident causes: Let's say, for example, that there had been tragic results from the failure in-flight of propeller governors on RVs, before awareness of this issue was raised by a safe power off landing.

When I was in clinical medical practice, I did regular reviews (as a risk manager/consultant/expert) of medical malpractice cases and cases with unexpected or otherwise "bad" outcomes. The knowledge I gained from the deep analysis of these events helped me be a better doctor and avoid many of the pitfalls that I might have been less aware of had I not had this direct exposure.

In addition to Doug's posting of RV accident probable causes, I think there would be value in a safety / accident discussion section that is somehow separated from the general forum - and clearly established as a place where speculation is allowed for the purpose of education and accident prevention.

Food for thought.
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Last edited by mturnerb : 06-12-2017 at 08:00 AM.
  #17  
Old 06-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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LettersFromFlyoverCountry LettersFromFlyoverCountry is offline
 
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I'm just struck by the tone of THIS crash and the condemnation of the pilot vs. the thread here when Dan Lloyd's probable cause was released.

I'm guessing it's because we knew Dan Lloyd.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ight=dan+lloyd

Analyze away. But, maybe, be nice.
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, MN.
Blog: Letters From Flyover Country
Almost ready to start the RV-12iS finishing kit. 480 hours in.

Builder log

Last edited by LettersFromFlyoverCountry : 06-12-2017 at 08:49 AM.
  #18  
Old 06-12-2017, 09:46 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry View Post
I'm just struck by the tone of THIS crash and the condemnation of the pilot vs. the thread here when Dan Lloyd's probable cause was released.

I'm guessing it's because we knew Dan Lloyd.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ight=dan+lloyd

Analyze away. But, maybe, be nice.
I completely understand. It's all too easy to go from "learning from others' mistakes" to "I am too good/smart/careful to make that mistake". Humility and aviation are an uneasy mix.
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Turner Billingsley
RV-14A In Progress
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:03 AM
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rv7boy rv7boy is offline
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Exclamation Quote of the Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
"...Humility and aviation are an uneasy mix."
Surely this is the Quote of the Day.

And, might I add, they, in combination, are in short supply.
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Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
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“Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard


"It should be added that the sublime beauty of the facture brings within the realm of discourse the substructure of critical thinking. " -using Doug's Art Critique jargon link and my birthday, I get this!
  #20  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:15 AM
pvalovich pvalovich is offline
 
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA
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Default No, Bob

There are things that happen in aviation when the truth ought to be addressed with no regard to niceties and feelings. In my opinion, this is the ultimate example.

There is no logical, reasonable path to defend Waylon Boatright's actions. He built the plane, he had to have had enough aviation knowledge to at least be aware of operating limitations, passenger restraint requirements, CG limits, the increased dangers of night flight with no visible horizon, the regs about drinking and flying and other ops/safety subjects. We can't say with certainty the aviation understanding of the four folks he killed. Worst case - they innocently - even in an alcohol-impaired state - went along for the ride with no clue about what they were getting into.

We aren't going to live long enough to have personal experience with all the potential hazards of aviation. We, therefore, must learn from the experiences of others. This is an unbelievable - except that it happened and is believable - example of how stupid a pilot can potentially be - and it deserves all the harsh criticism.
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