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  #1  
Old 03-31-2020, 02:43 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 498
Question Garmin Panel Decisions Help



I'm very near making a decision and ordering my panel. I'm going all Garmin. Stein said if my budget was tight, I should wire for the equipment that I don't have money for now but might later. In my case this might be the second G3X and the certified WAAS navigator (probably the GPS175).

The above photo has the GDU460 G3X, GTX-345 Transponder, GPS-175, GTR-200 comm, GMC-507 autopilot controller and second GDU460 G3X. I'm hoping for a second remote comm.

I'm aiming for light IFR functionality.

There are a few things I'm unsure about that I have no way of resolving on my own before purchasing.

Here in no particular order are my questions:
  1. How is the functionality of controlling things like transponder codes and radios through the G3X? Is it worth having the transponder and comm radio physically in the panel for functionality sake? If I get the GNX-375 and ditch the GTX-345 transponder I save $2000 but loose the dedicated transponder in the panel.
  2. Do I really need a dedicated audio panel? Isn't there one built in the GTR-200?.
  3. Why do so many panels have the auto pilot controller so high in the panel? It seem to me it should be by the throttle!?
  4. And, do I need a dedicated auto pilot controller? (I think I do...but??)
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Last edited by mfleming : 03-31-2020 at 05:25 PM. Reason: Edit for typo
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:00 PM
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g3xpert g3xpert is offline
 
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Location: Olathe, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfleming View Post


I'm very near making a decision and ordering my panel. I'm going all Garmin. Stein said if my budget was tight, I should wire for the equipment that I don't have money for now but might later. In my case this might be the second G3X and the certified WAAS navigator (probably the GPS175).

The above photo has the GDU460 G3X, GTX-45 Transponder, GPS-175, GTR-225 comm, GMC-507 autopilot controller and second GDU460 G3X. I'm hoping for a second remote comm.

I'm aiming for light IFR functionality.

There are a few things I'm unsure about that I have no way of resolving on my own before purchasing.

Here in no particular order are my questions:
  1. How is the functionality of controlling things like transponder codes and radios through the G3X? Is it worth having the transponder and comm radio physically in the panel for functionality sake? If I get the GNX-375 and ditch the GTX-45 transponder I save $2000 but loose the dedicated transponder in the panel.
  2. Do I really need a dedicated audio panel? Isn't there one built in the GTR-225?.
  3. Why do so many panels have the auto pilot controller so high in the panel? It seem to me it should be by the throttle!?
  4. And, do I need a dedicated auto pilot controller? (I think I do...but??)
Good Afternoon,

A few thoughts on some of your questions:
  • For an IFR panel, the remote transponder works well for programming squawk codes through the display. You may consider panel mounting the COM radio however for quick access to the knobs on the face of the unit for volume control. You could remote mount a GTR 20 as a #2 COM alongside the GTR 225.
  • The GTR 225 has a built-in 2 place intercom. You would only need an audio panel if you have 2 COM radios, so you can switch between the two of them. With just 1 COM radio, you would enjoy expanded intercom functionality with an audio panel like the GMA 245, but you can get by with just the GTR 225 in this case.
  • You can make all autopilot mode selections through the G3X Touch display, a GMC 507 mode controller is not required. For an IFR aircraft, it is nice to have the controller mounted on the panel, with its own dedicated indicator lights, buttons, and knobs.

Thanks,

Justin
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  #3  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:01 PM
bkervaski's Avatar
bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,483
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Quote:
How is the functionality of controlling things like transponder codes and radios through the G3X?
You just touch the transponder button on the display and enter the code, easy.

Quote:
Is it worth having the transponder and comm radio physically in the panel for functionality sake?
Not required, head units are just a preference. The remote units work great and the controls are all on the G3X screen.

However, the new all-in-one navigator/transponder like the GNX-375 look promising.

I have dual remote comms (GTR-20s) and the GTN-625XI.

Quote:
Do I really need a dedicated audio panel?
This one is a maybe, you might want an audio panel, they do some neat things like bluetooth integration and passenger isolation but no, it doesn't have to take up panel space, all the same functions are available on the touch screen if you use the remote audio panel such as the GMA-245R.

Quote:
And, do I need a dedicated auto pilot controller?
No, all the same functions are available on the touch screen, the G3X is the autopilot. The controller or "head unit" is just for physical buttons.

Having the dedicated physical buttons is just a preference, I like the simplicity of "less is more". A lot of your panel is just going to be personal preference.
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Last edited by bkervaski : 03-31-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:14 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfleming View Post


I'm aiming for light IFR functionality.

There are a few things I'm unsure about that I have no way of resolving on my own before purchasing.

Here in no particular order are my questions:
  1. How is the functionality of controlling things like transponder codes and radios through the G3X? Is it worth having the transponder and comm radio physically in the panel for functionality sake? If I get the GNX-375 and ditch the GTX-45 transponder I save $2000 but loose the dedicated transponder in the panel.
  2. Do I really need a dedicated audio panel? Isn't there one built in the GTR-225?.
  3. Why do so many panels have the auto pilot controller so high in the panel? It seem to me it should be by the throttle!?
  4. And, do I need a dedicated auto pilot controller? (I think I do...but??)
My opinions
I’m not sure what ‘light ifr’ means. But if you have just one efis display (meaning no backup if it fails) I’d suggest ‘no ifr’ until you have the second panel.
1. I have a different system - GRT Hx controlling a remote mounted Trig TT22 - but I’m happy enough not seeing the transponder on the panel, and entering the codes on the efis. For $2K I’d say it’s a no-brainer.
2. Audio panel is personal preference. I don’t have one, don’t miss it. But I think you will want an intercom with many unswitched inputs for com(s), music, efis alerts/alarms, ILS morse code, etc. More than the intercom built into the com.
3. I think you may be surprised how often you use the autopilot, even vfr. Since you’ll be fiddling with it often, it’s best up high, so you can keep your eyes outside as much as possible.
4. I have a Trio Pro (great unit) so I cannot answer from any experience. But I think you get additional functionality (ease of use) in the Garmin system with this control head.

Last edited by BobTurner : 03-31-2020 at 03:20 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:17 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,411
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As others have pointed out, recommend:
- Moving the TSO navigator as high as possible. The display is already hard to read - no need to make it harder.
- The GTN-650 is the best of all the bad options for the TSO navigator, and it serves as COMM #1.
- Use the remote transponder and remote COMM#2.
- Do use an audio panel. The PS Engineering PDA360EX is a very nice panel with BlueTooth and I recommend it. Great for calling for clearances and playing tunes on those long cross country trips.
- Yes you do need the Autopilot control panel, but move it below the TSO navigator.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:21 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Location: Savannah, GA
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Some ideas after 250 hours with G3X touch flying lots of (practice) IFR, which is the same workload as real IFR (and I fly some of that, too):
* Definitely get the autopilot controller. Youíll use it a lot, and having to bring the autopilot controller up on the PFD, make your selection and put it away is a big distraction from flying the plane IFR. Get it, and I like it on top;
* If you put too much radio tuning stuff on the top of the panel, you lose space for the parameter bar. It is SO NICE to have so much information always displayed there. On mine, the PFD shows the next waypoint (name, dist, time) and other stuff, the GTN750 shows the destination waypoint, and rarely used parameters (density altitude, for example) are on the MFD;
* I only have one comm and really donít miss the second comm much. Certainly en route, the flip flop gives you most of what you need and the monitor function lets you pick up ATIS when thereís a break in the main comm frequency;
* No, you donít need an audio panel for controlling the radios, but as somebody else pointed out, make sure that you get all of the audio alerts into the system;
* I have the NAV freqs on the #2 display, and it shows not only the frequency, but what the database thinks that frequency goes to, like which runway. You still have to check the Morse ID on the GTN 750, though;
* Forty years ago, when comm radios were mechanically tuned and flip-flops were unheard of in GA, changing to a new frequency while retaining the old frequency meant turn off one receiver, turn on the other, and switch transmitters Ė three actuations. That was done very frequently, so the audio panel earned its way to the top of the stack. Also, since the audio panel was smaller (in cubic inches) than the radios, its top could be tapered to fit under the fuselage where it tapered down. These days, unless your operation is unusual, youíd hardly touch it Ė maybe for music or something, but if youíre IFR, depending, you might be too busy for music;
* I think you can get away with a remote transponder. The only thing Iíd do would be to add an IDENT button on the panel for those rare occasions that you need it. I rarely get a new squawk code in the air.

If this thread continues long enough, you might get opposing opinions on every point... :-)
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  #7  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:37 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Some ideas after 250 hours with
*
* These days, unless your operation is unusual, you’d hardly touch it – maybe for music or something, but if you’re IFR, depending, you might be too busy for music;
* I think you can get away with a remote transponder. The only thing I’d do would be to add an IDENT button on the panel for those rare occasions that you need it. I rarely get a new squawk code in the air.

If this thread continues long enough, you might get opposing opinions on every point... :-)
+1 On the ident button. Our local tower asks for it a lot, even for vfr traffic. I remoted mine to a button on the the control stick, even though it’s easy enough to access from my efis display.
+1 on #2 com. I use mine routinely for ATIS, but use it so seldom for transmitting that I have to remind myself every 6 months or so to use it, just to be sure it still works!
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  #8  
Old 03-31-2020, 03:52 PM
cajunwings cajunwings is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: new iberia la
Posts: 728
Default Garmin IFR

So much of this is personal preference so set it up so that it pleases you. Getting close to this point on my 9. Iíll never intentionally do hard ifr in this plane, but Iím rated & capable and will equip for LPV & ILS approaches.

My choices after a lot of thought:

I already have a GTN 650 for this project
2 G3x displays with 2 ADHARS
1 G5 mounted on far left

-Panel mounted- (top to bottom)
Garmin audio panel
GTN 650
GTR 20
507 autopilot controller

I prefer accessible knobs on panel mounted equipment, but transponder is mostly set and forget and Iím out of space in center stack so GTX 45R on a shelf behind the baggage comp

Undecided on GAD27, donít want a backup avionics battery, but will have SD-8 backup alternator.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2020, 04:13 PM
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fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
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You said GTR225, but it looks like you have a GTR200 in the panel picture, which is what I am going with and meets your needs.
GNX375 will give you an IFR GPS and ADS-B in-out transponder.

So, Iíd lose the standalone transponder and move the comm to the bottom of your stack.

Looks good otherwise.
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  #10  
Old 03-31-2020, 04:13 PM
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fl-mike fl-mike is offline
 
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You said GTR225, but it looks like you have a GTR200 in the panel picture, which is what I am going with and meets your needs.
GNX375 will give you an IFR GPS and ADS-B in-out transponder.

So, Iíd lose the standalone transponder and move the comm to the bottom of your stack.

Looks good otherwise.
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RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
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