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  #11  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:14 PM
Denase Denase is offline
 
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Default cylinder wear treatment

A monolithic cylinder made of aluminum would require treatment for wear such as Nikasil wouldn't it? But I don't see what they use.
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:15 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brdog42 View Post
In the comments, a target price of $14-15,000 was mentioned one month ago.
So... call it 30 grand out the door when it's done, then.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:49 AM
PhatRV PhatRV is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The cost quote I remembered from the video was "less than half the current cost of a Cont. O-200, which I think is currently around $24K (the reason I wrote 12K)
I think if they can get the price down to the $12K range, it will take away the market of the Rotax which costs almost the same as a new O-360, even if it weights more than a Rotax.
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2020, 11:42 AM
breister breister is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denase View Post
A monolithic cylinder made of aluminum would require treatment for wear such as Nikasil wouldn't it? But I don't see what they use.
Edit: I don't see anything in the link that says they don't insert a sleeve, as do other engines - only an implication that they create the cylinder in a different way than traditional cylinders. While Nickasil CAN be deposited on Aluminum directly, Iron sleeves are not expensive nor particularly heavy and it seems like it would be very risky to trust a very thin deposited layer for aircraft use. However, after searching I have found other references to monolithic aluminum cylinders, so apparently they do exist. /Edit. They could still use a sleeve of nickel-steel called a "barrel." IMHO, plain Aluminum would last about a week... Here's a good description of an aircraft cylinder from Superior Air Parts. So, after trying to answer your question I am much less certain than I was originally....

Last edited by breister : 02-13-2020 at 01:15 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:20 PM
JDeanda JDeanda is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 117
Default Aluminum Bores

Yup, remember the debacle when General Motors built the aluminum cylinder Vega? The only other aluminum cylinder engine I know of was a model airplane engine. Somehow, K&B’s John Broadbeck got chrome to stick to aluminum on the low- cost K&B .61. He wouldn’t say how it was done. I had one, and that engine’s undoing was fast wear on the plain bearing main bearing. It got so loose I could feel cold, raw fuel spraying out if it. The cylinder did fine. The engine under test must surely have steel sleeves.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:51 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Nikasil and similar products have been around for decades.

Successfully used by the likes of Porsche and Rotax. No need to have steel sleeves if you are looking for reduced weight and much higher heat transfer rates on aluminum cylinders.
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:31 PM
breister breister is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Nikasil and similar products have been around for decades.

Successfully used by the likes of Porsche and Rotax. No need to have steel sleeves if you are looking for reduced weight and much higher heat transfer rates on aluminum cylinders.
Yeah, after my earlier post I started looking around the internet. I find a lot of references to them in racing, but little or nothing having to do with reliable, long lasting use. So, that begs the question - if they are really better, why isn't anyone using them in cars or motorcycles? Steel sleeves can handle hotter temperatures and really don't weigh all that much.

This is another one of those ideas that sounds really good, but I think I'll wait until they have a few hundred thousand hours of operational data before I'll try it...
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:45 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
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Location: Southern California
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Default Nickasil

Quote:
Originally Posted by breister View Post
Yeah, after my earlier post I started looking around the internet. I find a lot of references to them in racing, but little or nothing having to do with reliable, long lasting use. So, that begs the question - if they are really better, why isn't anyone using them in cars or motorcycles? Steel sleeves can handle hotter temperatures and really don't weigh all that much.

This is another one of those ideas that sounds really good, but I think I'll wait until they have a few hundred thousand hours of operational data before I'll try it...
Porsche successfully used nickasil or a similar process on their alulminum cylinder air cooled 911 production engines for years.

I think there is less reason to use this type process on water cooled engines with multi-cylinder blocks which is why you don't see it used much in the production road-vehicle world these days.

Skylor
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2020, 04:53 PM
kkmarshall kkmarshall is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central Tx
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A great many current motorcycles use this type of cylinder coating on aluminum.
BMW motorcycles for one,that commonly go over 100k+ miles without any internal cylinder work. Just FYI.
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  #20  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:42 PM
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Roarks Roarks is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix
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You guys want to read some interesting stuff... look at the engines/alloys that Mercury Marine have developed specifically Mercosil. Would love to have money to experiment with that stuff.
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