VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 05-18-2018, 12:41 PM
jamcgee1978 jamcgee1978 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Glasgow, UK
Posts: 47
Default Yaw Damper vs Rudder trim

Quick question,

Although way down the line of the build I had considered Aerosport Rudder trim spring bias system, is there still a need for a yaw damper in the -10 i plan on going with a Dynon skyview system. Slightly confused thanks in advance,

James
__________________
James McGee
Prestwick, Scotland
RV10
2018 Dues paid
Training kit complete
Emp complete
Wings arriving
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:02 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 7,754
Default

Auto pilot functionality (even yaw damper) is not meant to be used for trim on any axis.
The autopilot works best and expects the airplane to be in trim while it flys, just the same as you would want it to be.

The need for rudder trim is a totally different discussion, but since most of the time spent on AP is a level cruise condition, my experience flying RV-10's indicates that rudder trim is not needed.
__________________
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-19-2018, 06:18 AM
woxofswa woxofswa is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 505
Default

I started with no rudder trim in my RV10. Then I added a spring bias system and it was a slight improvement, mostly to not rest a foot on the right rudder during climb.
Later I added the Dynon yaw damper system and removed the spring bias system and it was a very nice improvement. The Y/D can’t replace full rudder trim like what would be required for a multi engine multi thrust line aircraft in the event of an engine failure. No way. It does, however, IMO, work great for the needs of a single thrust line aircraft for both dampening environmental yaw and keeping the rudder trimmed during the slight natural differences between climb, cruise, and descent attitudes, of an airplane that is otherwise “straight flying”.
Since I added my Y/D system, the airplane is ball centered, feet flat on the floor for everything but takeoff and landing, with a noticably more comfortable ride as well.
__________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
N24EV
RV-10 BPE, Dynon, Airflow systems A/C
First flight May 10, 2014

Last edited by woxofswa : 05-19-2018 at 06:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:52 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 1,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Auto pilot functionality (even yaw damper) is not meant to be used for trim on any axis.
The autopilot works best and expects the airplane to be in trim while it flys, just the same as you would want it to be.

The need for rudder trim is a totally different discussion, but since most of the time spent on AP is a level cruise condition, my experience flying RV-10's indicates that rudder trim is not needed.
+1

Carl
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-19-2018, 08:52 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,078
Default YD

Yep, Yaw Dampers and Rudder Trim are two DIFFERENT things...

Garmin seems to think so, too...

Engineers too...

The great thing about experimental aircraft is that you get to do whatever you want, regardless of what anyone else says.

What do those guys know, anyway!
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2017,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-19-2018, 12:02 PM
woxofswa woxofswa is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 505
Default

They are two different things. The RV10 was engineered WITHOUT rudder trim.
In my post I referenced “otherwise straight flying airplane”.
Having rudder trim is a choice. Having Y/D is a choice. If you have both, and the airplane isn’t flying straight, you should trim it first and engage the Y/D afterwards.
After the Y/D is engaged it will sense displacement of the ball and correct it to the center position because “centered ball” is how it is calibrated.

It works great. Happy to give any interested party a demo.
__________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
N24EV
RV-10 BPE, Dynon, Airflow systems A/C
First flight May 10, 2014
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:32 PM
GaryK's Avatar
GaryK GaryK is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Zeeland, Michigan
Posts: 341
Default

Myron,
I’m with you on this one. My 10 had was build without a trim tab. It flew great but the ball was always off to the right just enough to be a PITA. Maybe 10% of the ball just to the right of the centering vertical lines. If you rested your foot on it in cruise it would center up just fine. I tried the rudder trim system from Aerosport but in my case it didn’t have the clearance nessesary to install. Yes I could have installed a very small tab but really didn’t want to.The YD install was a nice to have. Keeps the ball centered in all phases of flight other than takeoff and initial climb. My wife flies with me all the time and really likes the ride especially in turbulence. It’s kind of like the Dynon auto trim, you don’t need it but once you have it....... The auto trim and YD make instrument approaches that much better. Yes I practice without them and without the AP. They just make a great plane even better.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:32 AM
JackinMichigan's Avatar
JackinMichigan JackinMichigan is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 210
Default chose not to go with yaw damper

I have a Garmin panel which supports a yaw damper. All it needs is wiring going to the servo. I wanted to install one but I couldn't figure out how to mount the servo. Later, I saw a sketch how to do it (and it was simple) but it was too late.

Also decided not to install rudder trim. Now that the plane is flying, rudder trim is necessary. Ordered Aerosports rudder trim device and I asked Zack if I could install the device on a finished plane. He said most of their sales are to customers who are already flying.
__________________
Jack and Dave Groat, father and son
RV-10 N1861G
Build #41389, started Oct 2012
Current status: 1st Flight 11/10/17
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:48 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.