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  #61  
Old 06-24-2019, 08:18 PM
Mark Burns's Avatar
Mark Burns Mark Burns is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ruston, Louisiana
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Yes, practice flying at 90 kts. Put a bit of flaps in so you can see over the nose.

Get in line and everything is usually ok. Except for LAST YEAR.

What happened last year has me very concerned and I wasn't even in the mess.
I arrived Sunday with the Falcon Flight group of RV's so it was easy for us.

I have always enjoyed going over to runway 27 on Sunday afternoon to watch all the planes come in. Often landing 3 at once on the same runway! Different color dots.

Well, after we landed and I was setting up my tent I kept wondering "where are all the planes"????

I would just see one land very now and then. What the heck?

Later I hear from some pilots that ATC had everyone circling the lakes!!!
And telling them to get in 1 mile trail. lol.

Has anyone heard or read anywhere that the controllers understand what happened? And that they are planning to do a better job?

My wife is flying with me this year and I don't want to get caught up the craziness that I heard about last year!
She was with me two years ago arriving on Saturday afternoon. It was busy, but really fun!

I sure hope the controllers are back to normal this year!!!

Mark
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  #62  
Old 06-24-2019, 09:42 PM
RV6_flyer's Avatar
RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Burns View Post
Yes, practice flying at 90 kts. Put a bit of flaps in so you can see over the nose.

Get in line and everything is usually ok. Except for LAST YEAR.

What happened last year has me very concerned and I wasn't even in the mess.
I arrived Sunday with the Falcon Flight group of RV's so it was easy for us.

I have always enjoyed going over to runway 27 on Sunday afternoon to watch all the planes come in. Often landing 3 at once on the same runway! Different color dots.

Well, after we landed and I was setting up my tent I kept wondering "where are all the planes"????

I would just see one land very now and then. What the heck?

Later I hear from some pilots that ATC had everyone circling the lakes!!!
And telling them to get in 1 mile trail. lol.

Has anyone heard or read anywhere that the controllers understand what happened? And that they are planning to do a better job?

My wife is flying with me this year and I don't want to get caught up the craziness that I heard about last year!
She was with me two years ago arriving on Saturday afternoon. It was busy, but really fun!

I sure hope the controllers are back to normal this year!!!

Mark
ATC had an accident on 36 so could not use 36. Grass was wet south of 27 so ATC could not exit aircraft left or south of 27. Everyone had to use hard taxiways on north side of 27. ATC then needed to hold arrivals so people like me could cross 27 to my parking to the south. I waited 30-minutes + to cross 27 to parking on south side. Not able to exit aircraft from 27 fast enough, ATC was forced to land aircraft one at a time instead of 3 at a time on one runway or 4+ on 2 runways. Spacing of one mile was needed because runway capacity for more aircraft did not exist.
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  #63  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:35 AM
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Mark Dickens Mark Dickens is offline
 
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Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprucemoose View Post
It says nothing of the sort. The exact wording is (emphasis added)

For aircraft unable to operate comfortably at 90 knots:

It says nothing about the pilot’s level of comfort, and this is a critical distinction.

Folks- as others have said, if you aren’t comfortable at 90 and you can’t follow the simple bail-out procedure rather than improvise then you should not fly into Oshkosh. It is time for some tough love here if we are going to improve things.
Good point, but it leaves the interpretation of which aircraft are comfortable to operate at 90 kts to the pilot/builder. Clearly, you and many others (me included) feel very comfortable operating at 90 kts, but I'd bet that some aren't...so your rule is that they just shouldn't fly in even though there is an approved higher altitude available...perhaps there needs to be a list of aircraft allowed at 2300 ft...everyone else is relegated to the low and slow lane.

I think Paddy hit the nail on the head, the chaos in the line from Ripon is largely caused by people cutting in line (intentionally or otherwise)...last year it got bad enough that I was catching up to a 172 at 65 kts. This is why I was and am so disappointed that the many good ideas put forth by this group and others as to how to improve the arrival were essentially ignored. Yes, they got discussion, but no action was taken. The root cause of all this is this single line into the airport. But there's no use in beating a dead horse.
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  #64  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:39 AM
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RogerH RogerH is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 33
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I want to mention, the situation wasn't just limited to 2018.

The Fisk arrival on Sunday morning 2016 was also chaotic due to low ceilings that morning. Lots of folks making the dash to KOSH to snag available campsites as soon as the weather went VFR resulted in very heavy traffic & extended holds that year also.

The hold situation in 2016 was further aggravated by some pilots choosing to fly the pattern in reverse I didn't go in 2018 but hopefully at least the reverse hold pattern didn't recur???

I think that until arriving aircraft can safely bank on campsites being available regardless of when they arrive, there will always be a mess on Sundays if weather limits arrivals.

The solution is fixing the underlying problem, e.g. devoting additional acreage to camping and not just the spacing/speed requirements of the Fisk arrival procedure.
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  #65  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:21 AM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Location: NC25
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There is only so much runway to land on at AirVenture OSH. IF there were a better way that was as safe or safer, the NOTAM would have us doing it. 90 Kts in an RV is safe and all RV pilots should be able to safely fly at gross weight at that speed. IF you are not comfortable at that speed and gross weight, you need more training and should stay away till you get it.



The NOTAM describes what is REQUIRED for us to fly our RVs to AirVenture OSH. IF you have a problem with what is required of the pilot to do with their RV aircraft, then do not go. IF you want to go, you do not have to go on Saturday and or Sunday, the airport open times are posted for other days. Stupid pilot tricks reduce airport capacity and can remove some of the landing slots reducing the number of aircraft that can be landed safely in any given hour.

Weather is out of our control. Weather as well as stupid pilot tricks reduce the number of aircraft that can be safely landed during any given hour.
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Gary A. Sobek
NC25 RV-6
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Where is N157GS
Building RV-8 S/N: 80012

To most people, the sky is the limit.
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  #66  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:23 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is online now
 
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I can tell you my personal plan has always been to divert and wait it out on the ground and never hold. I just see no up side to burring gas making orbits even in the best circumstances, much less during a goat rope like last year -- no thanks. But I've been lucky as to this point I've always been able to avoid any of the arrival shenanigans. Last year I was IFR the whole way Sat morning and shot the 27 GPS approach into OSH.
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