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  #1  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:18 AM
fdeppieri fdeppieri is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Italy - Venice -
Posts: 5
Default RV-10 very short T.O and Landing on grass ?

Hi all,

I'm an italian guy with a dream to build an RV-10.
Since several months I'm trying to understand the specific limits of that Aircraft with a particular reference about the capability to operate in a short grass strip.
I read a lot about that, but still I do not have a clear idea of the subject.

I live at sea level (near Venice) and I granted the possibility to open a short grass strip for Flying (not so easy in Italy). 1000 feet. Thats all!

So the question is very simple: with a proper training do you think it is possible to use an RV-10 with only 1000 feet of RUNWAY ?
Note that there are not high obstacles out of the runway; open field on one side (other 1000 feet before an obstacle of 50') and a small river on the other side with many other fields.
I mean not a gross weight, but with the most common usage conditions (2 people, half fuel etc) and the typical meteo condition (20-30 C°).


I'd like understand if I can fly, whitout figuring out every day to estabilish a guinness record to minimize the runway..

An answer to that question is very important for me. It is a sort of "Go" or "Not go" for that project.

Thanks a lot
Francesco
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:51 AM
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TroyBranch TroyBranch is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
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Our elevation is 3500ft and with no wind and light I can get stopped in 600ft and never more than 700ft. No wind take off is about 600ft. At see level I am always loaded so I never seen how short I can stop light. I can see 1000ft at see level and loaded being ok. You will just have to pick your days. This is considering a clear approach to touch down as you have to drag it in under power to really get short. When you are heavy and want to stop short I think you need better brakes than stock.
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  #3  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:05 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Location: Dallas area
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While it is doable, I don't think you would be comfortable in the long run.
I have 1500' (645' msl) and don't have a problem but I wouldn't want any less for daily use.
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  #4  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:44 AM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,692
Default Paving?

Paving your strip could help too. Is that a possibility?
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2017, 10:26 AM
fdeppieri fdeppieri is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Italy - Venice -
Posts: 5
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Hi,

thanks for the reply.
Reading the posts, it seems possible… but not all the feedbacks are positive.

About the possibility to pav the strip I must investigate. For sure, there are many other authorizations I need to follow this way.
So at the moment grass is mandatory for the evaluation; I can not wait a couple of years to grant the pav autorizathions (I’m not in US) before to start building…

Thanks a lot
Francesco
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:01 AM
David Paule David Paule is online now
 
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Location: Boulder, CO
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I don't have an RV-10, but I do have a Cessna 180. For that plane, 1,000 feet is acceptable - if the pilot is doing everything right. These days I'm not flying as much as I used to and I've found that I need more than that; currently I need 1,500 feet or even more to be minimally safe.

So the lesson is that if you're at the top of your game you'll be able to do considerably better than if you're merely average in proficiency. Note that getting that good takes a lot of work and regular flying.

Dave
RV-3B, now skinning the fuselage
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  #7  
Old 06-26-2017, 11:15 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Also keep in mind that people will up their game when consistently challenged, and relax when their "normal" dictates otherwise. My main runway is 30 foot wide and subject to pretty extreme crosswinds. Some people refuse to land there on a calm day, but I rarely have difficulty anymore. A "normal" runway seems absolutely luxurious.

If the 1000 feet at sea level has the option of going around easily, then I don't see the harm. Chances are it will end up being plenty as you gain proficiency. I suspect that you will have to develop the mindset that every landing is a likely go around, and be prepared to execute that decision at the first sign of trouble, however.
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2017, 09:43 AM
Machsandy Machsandy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: England
Posts: 21
Default Grass Runway use

Hello Francesco

I operate an RV10 in the UK. Unlike our good friends on the other side of the Atlantic I rarely operate from hard runways as most of the small GA airfields here are grass.

I would strongly recommend that you do not routinely operate an RV10 from a 1000' grass runway. I think there is a very strong likelyhood it will end up leading to a serious incident or accident. I do about 60 hours a year in our 10 and the shortest strip I have operated from is 1000' but to be safe everything has to be perfect.

The RV10 is incredibly capable and ground roll on take off is very impressive however stopping on a 1000' grass runway requires you touch down at EXACTLY the correct spot and EXACTLY the correct speed.

So from my perspective routine use of anything below 1500 feet leaves insufficient margin.

We all have different attitude to risk, my threshold is normally high, however with all of my experience of operating an RV10 from grass I felt obliged to give you another opinion.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2017, 03:42 PM
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Michael Wellenzohn Michael Wellenzohn is offline
 
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Location: Zuerich, Switzerland
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Hi Francesco
I just have been at Venezia Lido with my -10 and I have to second what my pre writer said. I operate from a grass runway in Switzerland which is about 2200 ft at 2372 ft. o have trees in the final and use usually around 1300 ft. However I do brake only once the plane has slowed down. I think it can be done but it will not leave room for. PM me and I can send you my landing distance table which has. Den performed on a dry concrete runway.
Kind Regards
Michael
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  #10  
Old 06-27-2017, 04:21 PM
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TroyBranch TroyBranch is offline
 
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To clarify my post, the distance is the total touch down roll. Meaning you touch down 300ft long... I would only operate out of 1000ft if I was light and the day was right.
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RV10 Built and Flying Since Feb 2009
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RV9 Built and Sold
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