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  #11  
Old 06-23-2017, 07:47 PM
Mark_H Mark_H is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Wharton, TX
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1flyingyogi View Post
... economical enough for cross country...
Seems like a bit of a understatement.
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2017, 12:17 AM
precession precession is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuRugal View Post
Either/or. I am confident enough in my basic aptitude and pilot ability that I do not believe it is likely to be "too much to handle". ... That said, I am likely to end up finishing up my PP before I find one to purchase:
Your chances of finding an RV-4 with dual controls plus an instructor able & willing to give instruction in it to finish your PPL would be nil, which is why I asked.

However, if youíre talking about getting one after your PPL, I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree at all. IMO, an RV-4 is not really harder to fly than any other basic tail dragger, and plenty of people have gotten their PPL's in tail draggers. I'd bet plenty have gotten their PPL's in a tricycle gear trainer, then moved on to a tail dragger, so I don't see any problem, provided you get proper transition training and develop the ability to fly competently and safely.

IMO, a used RV-4 (and a good one) is undoubtedly one of the greatest bargains in aviation right now. You are getting an amazing amount of all-around performance for the price.

The only other question is whether the things you get and don't get in an RV-4 are what you want in an airplane. I have nothing against a Cherokee, and I'm willing to say (as a 17 year RV-4 owner) that in many ways a Cherokee is a more civilized ride than an RV-4, especially if you want to bring your wife or girlfriend. You sit up on a seat like a chair; your friend/girlfriend can sit next to you; someone else can sit in the back; if you don't have anyone with you, you can have your maps and junk on the empty seat next to you, etc. It's all more roomy and car-like than an RV-4.

In an RV-4, you get down in the cockpit and you're sitting somewhat like in a go cart, with your feet out in front of you; you've got a canopy close overhead; there's not much room for unfolding a map, and the airplane likes to go different directions while you're reading the map. Your friend in the back also gets down in the cockpit, and his/her feet are next to your hips.

But in the RV-4, the combination of balance, handling, speed, visibility, light aerobatic capability, and economy is amazing. You said you find those things attractive, plus you like the idea of sitting on the center line. Sounds like you like the things an RV-4 gives you.

Also sounds like you should be headed to Fixnflyguy's place to take him up on his offer and see if the plane's for you.

PS, remember an RV-4 likes to live inside a hangar, while an older Cherokee can probably be kept outside, so a pretty significant cost difference there.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2017, 06:37 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is online now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
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Odds of finding an instructor are a bit tougher (depending on where you are & who you know), but far from nil. My current RV-4 was built by a 'car' guy. His 1st a/c build, and after he finished it, his CFI friend taught him to fly in it. Starting at zero hours training. It's got rudder pedals in the back but no throttle/mixture. They started with the student in the back, until he could land it with just rudder (and no brakes) from the back seat. Then they swapped places for the rest of the training.

I trained more or less the same way, in a Luscombe. Right seat (no brakes) until I could land it using only rudder, then we swapped seats. Only real difference was, I could reach the throttle (which made it easier, of course).

Charlie
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2017, 05:02 PM
ShuRugal ShuRugal is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixnflyguy View Post
If you can get down to NC, I can give you a full RV4 tour/ride. I built mine, and work on many others. I have helped several first time RV Want to be owners become owners..they are great machines.
I will definitely consider this. I see from the list that there is someone in Fredricksburg with one (I am in the Richmond area), but if I am not able to work out anything with that individual, you'll definitely be next on the list. I certainly appreciate the offer, either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by precession View Post
Your chances of finding an RV-4 with dual controls plus an instructor able & willing to give instruction in it to finish your PPL would be nil, which is why I asked.
Yeah, I've seen two come up on barnstormers with rear stick/pedals (most just have rear stick, it seems)


Quote:
Originally Posted by precession View Post
The only other question is whether the things you get and don't get in an RV-4 are what you want in an airplane. I have nothing against a Cherokee, and I'm willing to say (as a 17 year RV-4 owner) that in many ways a Cherokee is a more civilized ride than an RV-4, especially if you want to bring your wife or girlfriend. You sit up on a seat like a chair; your friend/girlfriend can sit next to you; someone else can sit in the back; if you don't have anyone with you, you can have your maps and junk on the empty seat next to you, etc. It's all more roomy and car-like than an RV-4.
That is definitely a consideration as well, but my primary concern is with overall performance. I'm single with no kids, and while I do have a couple friends and relatives I might like to fly with, most of my flying is likely to be alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by precession View Post
PS, remember an RV-4 likes to live inside a hangar, while an older Cherokee can probably be kept outside, so a pretty significant cost difference there.
That is definitely a concern as well. I have not been able to find much published on going rates for hangar space: I am probably going to end up having to call around to do research on that.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2017, 09:35 AM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,599
Default All bark, no bite...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuRugal View Post
Any advice? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should i just bite the bullet and buy a used cherokee for $20k and just accept that it's a slow gas-hog?
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/d...sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. smokyray@rocketmail.com
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ort-pilot-rule

Last edited by smokyray : 06-28-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2017, 10:59 AM
Icarus Icarus is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 231
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I own both a cherokee 180 and an RV-4. I love my RV, it just carried me 900 miles up and back the right coast with burns as low as 5gph in cruise at speeds my cherokee can only get downhill.

They aren't particularly hard to fly, but as Smoky said they will fly right out from underneath you if you are not prepared. This is a light aircraft, I am not in the camp that your simulator time means next to anything and I sincerely hope you seek out and receive extensive transition training.

I have done multiple tailwheel signoffs for pilots new to RVs, they can be done. I prefer to do them in side by side RVs, and would not consider doing it in a -4 for a few different reasons. My concern is that you may start flying tailwheels and decide its not for you, it happens.

Take it slow and safe, it is a great airplane.
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2017, 01:22 PM
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SMO SMO is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salmon Arm, BC
Posts: 874
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Just another point of view:

I would have failed all of Smoky's questions when I bought my RV-4. Got a tailwheel checkout with Mike Seagar which gave me enough time on type to get insurance. Spent nearly all the first 30 or so hours in the circuit. Never had a problem flying it and while landings were far from perfect they were safe. I never felt I was out of my league in that airplane. Mine had a constant speed prop so slowing down was never an issue - my experience might have been different with a fixed pitch prop.

I did have a few hundred hours on various other airplanes, Cessnas and Cherokees, but I had been out of aviation for a number of years when I got my RV-4.

I would do it the same way again without hesitation, but not with that specific RV-4 (another story).
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1987 RV-4 Sold
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2017, 03:47 PM
Capt Capt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/d...sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. smokyray@rocketmail.com
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ort-pilot-rule
I enjoy yr input here 'smokyray' it's valuable advice from an experienced aviator:-)
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2017, 05:46 PM
ShuRugal ShuRugal is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyray View Post
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/d...sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. smokyray@rocketmail.com
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ort-pilot-rule

Sent you an email.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
I own both a cherokee 180 and an RV-4. I love my RV, it just carried me 900 miles up and back the right coast with burns as low as 5gph in cruise at speeds my cherokee can only get downhill.

They aren't particularly hard to fly, but as Smoky said they will fly right out from underneath you if you are not prepared. This is a light aircraft, I am not in the camp that your simulator time means next to anything and I sincerely hope you seek out and receive extensive transition training.

I have done multiple tailwheel signoffs for pilots new to RVs, they can be done. I prefer to do them in side by side RVs, and would not consider doing it in a -4 for a few different reasons. My concern is that you may start flying tailwheels and decide its not for you, it happens.

Take it slow and safe, it is a great airplane.
I respect your opinion that sim time != stick time, but I must disagree that it "does not mean anything". Having been in a position to compare various aircraft behavior in the simulator I use with multiple similar types either RC or full-scale, I believe that simulator time is very valuable when properly applied. The only thing really missing is the sensation of pulling Gs, and if anything the actual control manipulation in a real bird is easier than in the sim, because you get feedback from the plane, where in the sim you are entirely reliant on visual cues which may well come too late.

Overall, the gist of what I am getting from most here is mainly "Don't buy one until you've tried one, and get conventional gear training in something more tame while you're at it", which sounds like great advice. I'll hold off on making a decision until I complete my PP cert, and I won't pull the trigger until I've had a chance to sample one and gotten some conversion training. But most of what people have to say about these sounds like this is exactly the plane I am looking for.

We'll see what we see, i guess.
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2017, 09:35 PM
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Blain Blain is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 598
Default Try one on for size

I'm not of big stature and I found the -4 cramped. Tried an -8 and felt right at home.

These tandem planes are a way different feel then those sport side by sides.

Remember, consider your mission.
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R-22 sold.
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