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  #11  
Old 07-11-2017, 04:08 PM
RV7A Flyer's Avatar
RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMARTON View Post
I'm having a very slow rate on my RV7A
Define "very slow". How many deg/sec at various IAS?
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2017, 05:06 PM
spatsch spatsch is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Randolph, NJ
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilin' Jack View Post
I know it has been adresses before and the general response was roll slower. But has anyone come up with a fix such as a flexible gap seal on the wing in front of the aileron? I was thinking of taping some very thin UHMW tape to the wing and letting it lay against the aileron to see if the airflow over the bottom and top of the aileron could be improved and eliminate the buffet... Like a gap seal
What do you think,
That little tapping feeling only becomes an issue in double rolls perhaps because my airspeed has decreased.
Also thought about vortex generators installed just adhead of the aileron.
Jack
I wouldn't really worry about it. It happens with my RV-8 at certain speeds too. The first time it really got my attention (I hadn't read about it before so it was a surprise during phase 1...) after a while you would miss it if it didn't happen.

Oliver
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http://www.spatscheck.com/oliver
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:19 PM
ALMARTON ALMARTON is offline
 
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Location: BRAZIL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
I recommend you that you do not tape the gap. A frise style aileron is designed to have airflow between the wing and the aileron.

I think you should look at your problem in a different way.....
If there is 9000+ RV's flying.... with good aileron response (without sealing the gap).... wouldn't it be better to figure out what is different about your airplane from all the rest?

I suggest you start with reading the portion of the current Section 5 of the construction manual regarding proper trailing edge shape of control surfaces.

Nice Scott! Many thanks as I did not built my plane I did not know about that. I'm going to look into it. Thanks again for the info
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Alexandre "neck" Marton
Brazil
RV7A (8/2015 built by FLYER)
Lycoming 180 HP - YIO-360-M1B, Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497 72, Garmin panel - G3X Touch, GTN650, GTS800, WX-500, BATT CONCORDE RG-25XC AEROBATIC SEALED.
-------------
Others: RV9A
Lycoming XIO320-D1A, Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF/F7663-4 , CS GOVERNOR MTV-12-B, DYNON D180
AND GARMIN AVIONICS
(Sold with aprox 300hrs flown from Dec/2010 -- JUN/2014)
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2017, 06:22 PM
ALMARTON ALMARTON is offline
 
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Location: BRAZIL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
Define "very slow". How many deg/sec at various IAS?
I wouldn't know how to measure it RV7A Flyer could you tell me?

I'm saying slow as compared with my former 9A who should roll slower than this new 7A but not...

I'm also saying it by a educated guess comparing two flown 7A I've got arround my base.

But It would help a lot if I coud measure... never thought of it. What would you say is the best method? To roll 360 and time it? Just as simple?
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Alexandre "neck" Marton
Brazil
RV7A (8/2015 built by FLYER)
Lycoming 180 HP - YIO-360-M1B, Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497 72, Garmin panel - G3X Touch, GTN650, GTS800, WX-500, BATT CONCORDE RG-25XC AEROBATIC SEALED.
-------------
Others: RV9A
Lycoming XIO320-D1A, Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF/F7663-4 , CS GOVERNOR MTV-12-B, DYNON D180
AND GARMIN AVIONICS
(Sold with aprox 300hrs flown from Dec/2010 -- JUN/2014)
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  #15  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:47 PM
ALMARTON ALMARTON is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 130
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Well I timed some videos doing tunneaus I had and ones I found and came up with the results:

Average roll for RV7 is 109 to 95 degrees/sec

Mine is doing 85 to 75 degrees/sec (very low as I had supposed)

My 9A (from timing its videos) did about 70 to 65 degrees/sec

Question how do I improve my RV7 roll rate? Clearly it was not feeling right now with some numbers it must not be right and needed to be fixed.

Any comments?
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Alexandre "neck" Marton
Brazil
RV7A (8/2015 built by FLYER)
Lycoming 180 HP - YIO-360-M1B, Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497 72, Garmin panel - G3X Touch, GTN650, GTS800, WX-500, BATT CONCORDE RG-25XC AEROBATIC SEALED.
-------------
Others: RV9A
Lycoming XIO320-D1A, Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF/F7663-4 , CS GOVERNOR MTV-12-B, DYNON D180
AND GARMIN AVIONICS
(Sold with aprox 300hrs flown from Dec/2010 -- JUN/2014)
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  #16  
Old 07-11-2017, 07:59 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,903
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1) Is your airplane rigged correctly? In other words, do your ailerons reach the specified deflections?

2) Do cushions or maybe your thighs block full stick travel?

3) What is your technique for rolling the airplane? Walk us through all of your control inputs.

4) Is your airplane stock? No outboard fuel tanks, no luggage storage in the tips, etc?
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2001 RV-6 N46KB
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2017, 08:56 PM
ALMARTON ALMARTON is offline
 
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Location: BRAZIL
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
1) Is your airplane rigged correctly? In other words, do your ailerons reach the specified deflections?

2) Do cushions or maybe your thighs block full stick travel?

3) What is your technique for rolling the airplane? Walk us through all of your control inputs.

4) Is your airplane stock? No outboard fuel tanks, no luggage storage in the tips, etc?

1) Don't know I did not build it myself (wish I did). Bought it. Can you provide info on that for me to verify if it reaches specified deflections? Appreciate.

2) No.

3) Not much of a technique , most of the rolls I start at about 120 mph pitch the nose about 25 degrees over the horizon and apply full aileron (no rudder input at all). Most of time. This is my most common roll. Just use rudder in slow rolls. Should try it on normal ones?

4) Stock RV7A no mods. Brand new 143 hours , rolling solo with about 13 gals each tank (balanced and light). First flight October/2015
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Alexandre "neck" Marton
Brazil
RV7A (8/2015 built by FLYER)
Lycoming 180 HP - YIO-360-M1B, Hartzell C2YR-1BFP/F7497 72, Garmin panel - G3X Touch, GTN650, GTS800, WX-500, BATT CONCORDE RG-25XC AEROBATIC SEALED.
-------------
Others: RV9A
Lycoming XIO320-D1A, Hartzell HC-C2YL-1BF/F7663-4 , CS GOVERNOR MTV-12-B, DYNON D180
AND GARMIN AVIONICS
(Sold with aprox 300hrs flown from Dec/2010 -- JUN/2014)
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:02 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMARTON View Post
1) Don't know I did not build it myself (wish I did). Bought it. Can you provide info on that for me to verify if it reaches specified deflections? Appreciate.

2) No.

3) Not much of a technique , most of the rolls I start at about 120 mph pitch the nose about 25 degrees over the horizon and apply full aileron (no rudder input at all). Most of time. This is my most common roll. Just use rudder in slow rolls. Should try it on normal ones?

4) Stock RV7A no mods. Brand new 143 hours , rolling solo with about 13 gals each tank (balanced and light). First flight October/2015
Regarding item 1: Do you have access to the instructions or construction manual for your RV-7? It should specify control deflections. I'm an RV-6 guy, so I don't have the data for the -7.

Regarding item 3: I believe your roll rate would increase up to about 150 mph and rudder input would increase the rate as well. Others may have data supporting my belief (particularly regarding roll rate vs airspeed).
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2001 RV-6 N46KB
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:10 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 161
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The IAC tech tips published a method of sealing Pitts ailerons and I liked it on my S1S.

My RV-6 has aileron throws in spec, slightly under in aileron, and they will give some thumping above 1 g near vA, less if unloaded a bit.

I would not seal them. The gap and amount of leading edge in the high pressure below the wing is not the same as the S1S. I bet a few VGs in the right spot would remove the buffet. Do all series of wingtips act the same?


Just a gut feeling. Plus, a 4 aileron Pitts may act differently if a gap seal becomes loose compared to an RV.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:18 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 2,335
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Rudder definitely assists roll rate in a -4; no reason to think it would be any different in the other short wing models.

Is the roll rate really that slow in a -7? I figured it would be just a bit slower, but not that much.
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