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  #31  
Old 05-05-2016, 08:32 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Regarding the formation comment, I haven't gone to get my card, so I can't tell you for sure. It's just something I've been told many times by people who have been to the classes. I don't know that it's accurate in all cases or even most. But even last year at OSH while talking to a fellow RV-10/RV-8 builder who attends training often, he said it again. So it may be dependent on what group you go with. I do know that they want controls that you can instantly (and constantly) move.
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1375+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
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  #32  
Old 05-05-2016, 08:58 PM
GeraldC GeraldC is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Buda, TX
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The push/pull cables (vs a quadrant) aren't the problem for formation flying. It's the vernier push/pull cables that requires you to push a button to change setting that's a problem. See post #13 in this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...t=96996&page=2
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  #33  
Old 05-05-2016, 11:04 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Location: Spring Hill, KS
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Like Tim I started out in Cessnas and never really liked the push-pull knobs although they worked fine. Switched to Pipers, loved the quadrant, and liked it even better in my RV-8A. I prefer the ergonomics, but I admit it also just feels more like I'm flying a high performance aircraft...F-16's don't have push-pull knobs, they have a manly lever There's lots of talk about making fine adjustments with the vernier knob controls, but I never had any trouble making fine adjustments to throttle, prop, or mixture. The one complaint I did have was that there's only one friction adjustment for all three levers on the RV-8 quadrant. This is ok 99% of the time, but I found that when flying as wingman in a formation I preferred to reduce the friction on the throttle since I'd be making lots of power changes to hold position, and if I reduced the friction adjustment too much the prop lever would gradually creep forward due to the spring on the governor pulling it to high RPM. Not a big issue but not ideal either.

So, what to do? A while back I contacted Dayton from DJM Manufacturing (he builds the quadrants sold through Vans) and asked if he could make me a quadrant for the RV-14 that has a friction adjustment on both sides. One on the left for the throttle, and the one on the right for the prop & mixture. He said he'd be happy to do that and to contact him when I get ready to order. He also said he would consider running a wire up through the throttle lever to a push button switch that can be used for the TOGA (TakeOff/GoAround) function on the G3X autopilot. You can punch the button when you get to minimums on an instrument approach and the G3X autopilot will fly a fully coupled go around. This button can be located elsewhere but it's traditionally on the throttle for good reason...easy to press as you feed in the power for the go around.
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  #34  
Old 05-06-2016, 07:41 AM
TimO TimO is offline
 
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Location: Wisconsin
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Mark, that is really great that he is willing to do more to improve the quadrant and get one working for your (and other) RV-14's. I haven't had much issue with levers moving the way I keep the friction set, but I can see your point and how ideally you could have 2 friction settings, so if he's willing, go for it. I think either way you'll be happy in the end. My avionics don't have the TOGA function that is remote-able so that won't work for me, but it's not a bad idea.

One suggestion I do have for people though...

When locating my switches, there is one thing I did with both airplanes I built, that I think is very handy.

I have the boost pump switch located perfectly so that if my hand is on the throttle and I'm full throttle, I can flick my thumb and turn on the boost. If you're going to need boost, it's likely going to be during a high power move. So having that there gives you immediate access. My flap switch is located just left of that, so it's not much of a movement to drop the flaps, either.
And in my case, I have the safety trim installed, which has an associated switch...that is located above but near the quadrant. Those are all things that you may want convenient access to. Just a thought for those who are planning a panel layout.
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1375+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
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  #35  
Old 05-06-2016, 09:29 AM
ShortSnorter ShortSnorter is offline
 
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Location: NOLA
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After "freight dogging" for years in general aviation aircraft, I much prefer the push pull controls for this reason: Most of the aircraft that I flown with quadrants (twins BE 58, PA31, etc..) have issues with the friction lock. When trying to adjust 6 levers independently you almost ALWAYS had to hold the adjacent lever still with your free hand and adjust the desired lever with the other hand. If not, the adjacent lever that was not the desired lever to be adjusted would always incrementally move in the same direction of the one being adjusted. Loosening the friction lock would only exacerbate the problem.

This may only have been because they were old AC with 10,000 -20,000 hours on the airframe and had the typical 135 Cargo company MX done. The DHC-2 amphib was the only pleasant experience with a quadrant. Maybe it was because it was a single and didn't have as many levers, maybe it was because it newer, who knows, just my .02.
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  #36  
Old 05-13-2016, 01:40 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Default Prop governor cable passthrough location?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post
The only caution I'd make sure you understand is that my prop governor cable isn't routed per plans. So don't copy my cable lengths unless you are going to drill the same hole and use an eyeball in the firewall in the same spot as I did. If I were doing it again I'd move it up 1/2", but that would mean a longer cable. If you have an extra inch of cable, that's a LOT...these things are very stiff. So you want to get the measurement pretty darn close.
Tim, do you mind sharing the measurements and/or picture of your governor cable firewall passthrough location so we don't have to figure it out all over again?

Thanks,
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  #37  
Old 05-13-2016, 01:50 PM
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NovaBandit NovaBandit is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hastings, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortSnorter View Post
When trying to adjust 6 levers independently you almost ALWAYS had to hold the adjacent lever still with your free hand and adjust the desired lever with the other hand. If not, the adjacent lever that was not the desired lever to be adjusted would always incrementally move in the same direction of the one being adjusted.
The DJM quadrants have metal tabs between the levers at the pivot point that would prevent rotational force from being transferred between the arms. The friction lock just squeezes these plates against the arm, making it harder to move.

You can see the bronze colored plates here:


So the scenario that you mentioned shouldn't happen in our planes (with DJM quadrants).
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  #38  
Old 05-14-2016, 03:15 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Mark,
As requested:
My eyeball that I used for the prop governor cable is located like this:

The CENTER of the eyeball when punching the hole in the firewall is located 2.5" up from the bottom of the top section firewall panel....so it's on the upper.

The LEFT edge of the square eyeball bracket is about 1/8" to the RIGHT from the stiffening bump (I'm not sure what you call that thing that's pounded into the firewall...but it strengthens it) in the upper firewall. It's to the LEFT of the fuel/oil pressure manifold that gets mounted to the firewall. (I'm telling you that because there are multiple stiffening bumps) As a second reference point it's roughly 13.75" from the left upper engine mount bolt. That will get you pretty close to the location that I used. If I did it again I'd move it up maybe .25 to .5" but then you'd have to get a longer cable as well. That said, it will work fine as is...but you'll want to put a rubber cushion on the engine mount so they can't touch.

Tim
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RV-10 N104CD - Flying 2/2006 - 1375+ hours http://www.MyRV10.com
RV-14 N14YT - Flying 6/2016 - 300+ hours http://www.MyRV14.com
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2016, 01:51 AM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Thanks Tim!
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RV-14A #140017 - wings complete, empacone in progress...
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:30 AM
kaber56 kaber56 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fairview Park, OH
Posts: 25
Default Quadrant issue

Just received my quadrant to see how I would like it and here is my observation:

When I tested it I was sitting on my Oregon Aero seat cushions to get a realistic feel. It looks really cool in the airplane however, it hits my right knee when I sit and spread my legs as I normally would on a x-country flight. Another issue for me was that it somewhat hides the real estate of the center console north of the fuel valve. This is where I intend to place my small Ipad. So after all this, I am staying with the push-pull setup.
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