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Garmin GTN-650 GPS signal Problems

The Wizzard

Well Known Member
I have an RV-8 with a Garmin 650 in the panel. The antenna is mounted to the engine motor mount (under the cowling) just above the oil cooler and near the PMAG and Magneto wires. Keep reading! (I was guessing that since this was a certified unit with a powered antenna and WAAS capable it might be a bad idea!)

It was installed that way because thats what everybody says to do with these antennas on an RV-8! (Canopy gets in the way) There is also an antenna for another GPS and XM radio beside it. I have never lost the signal on that antenna however have lost the signal on the 650 many times. It's very random, sometimes after liftoff, sometimes during flight. It may take a 1/2 hour for it to come back or it may come back immediately. The green bars move up and down continuously sometimes and other times they are steady as a rock, or I get the "grey acquiring bars". When compared to the other 2 GPS's on board the 650 seems as though it has a problems acquiring satellites and keeping them.

I have since moved the antenna to the back of the pilots seat, all TNC connections have been verified and there is 4.7 volts on the center pin. I flew the plane yesterday with the new install and so far so good but I'm holding my breath! The "under the cowling installation" seemed to work great with moments of not so great, very infrequent, very unpredictable and almost impossible to reproduce. In other words same runway, same direction of flight and give an airplane ride to one person and it worked great and another person 20 min. later and it did not work.

My warranty is running out, 6 weeks to go and I really want to put this one to bed. Any other suggestions?

Dave
 
GTN650 GPS

I recently installed GTN650 with antenna under cowl in my RV6 and it seems to be working well.

The install manual says to have a minimum of 6 (or 7?) feet of RG400 between the GTN and antenna and I did that.

Could that be your problem?
 
Had all kinds of issues with a 430W and the antenna under the hood. Did everything but move the antenna.

Replaced the antenna and it has worked fine (even after upgrading to the GTN650) ever since.

UPDATE: Got 4 years out of the replacement then it died...
 
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Antenna

Garmin actually suggests 12-14 feet of Coax as per Steinair so I have that as well. This is my second antenna also!
 
new antenna

Had all kinds of issues with a 430W and the antenna under the hood. Did everything but move the antenna.

Replaced the antenna and it has worked fine (even after upgrading to the GTN650) ever since.

I replaced the antenna back in spring of this year and the problem went away then came back last month!
 
Interesting...

My employer did a 650 install on an OH-58A for a LE agency several weeks back; they have returned twice for repeated loss of GPS signal in flight. Checks out 100% on the ramp, and in the hangar using our avionics guy's GPS repeater.

Following this.
 
Interesting...

My employer did a 650 install on an OH-58A for a LE agency several weeks back; they have returned twice for repeated loss of GPS signal in flight. Checks out 100% on the ramp, and in the hangar using our avionics guy's GPS repeater.

Following this.

I've heard from some reliable sources that GPS antenna placement is critical on helo's, the rotors play havoc with reception.
 
I've heard from some reliable sources that GPS antenna placement is critical on helo's, the rotors play havoc with reception.

Correct. It's not too bad on a 2-blade rotor system like the -58, but 4+ blades can start to really do a number on the GPS signal quality. Mount the antenna too close to the hub center, and the rotor disc starts acting like a solid barrier to the GPS signal; hence the availability of vertical fin caps with GPS antenna mount provisions, for several models.

This particular mounting location (FWD servo cowling) is no different than hundreds of other Bell 206s/OH-58s out there with GPS antennas mounted there. Not sure what the root cause is yet...
 
I had the very same problem with the GTN-650 in my RV-10. I sent it back to Garmin twice and both times it was returned with no problems found and a note saying it was my installation or Antenna. While it was back at Garmin for the second time I borrowed another GTN-650 and flew it for over 10 hours without a single GPS failure. I then received my unit back and had it fail 5 minutes into the first flight with it. Garmin then replaced the unit and I have not had any GPS problems since.

If you can borrow another GTN-650 and test it in your plane it would help you diagnose the source of the problem.

Rob Hickman
RV-10 N402RH
 
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