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  #11  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:13 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Greenley View Post
This is because a BFR has the CFI taking the controls for brief periods of time. My current CFI is ineligible because he has not had transition training, so he could not even be listed.
I just did a BFR last week and the CFI never touched the stick. However, I somewhat understand their perspective on that. But it greatly increases the difficulty of getting a BFR done. If this safety pilot issue turns out to be accurate, it's time we start speaking with the carriers directly. I am certain at least one carrier will allow this and we can entice them with moving over a lot of business from other carriers that won't allow it. It's really a no brainer for the insurance company. The safety pilot never touches the stick so there is no risk for them.

I remain convinced this is coming from an underwriter not fully thinking it through and understanding that a safety pilot is not an acitive pilot and does not pilot the plane. Happy to have a restriction in my policy that forbids safety pilots from controlling the aircraft. I fact, my policy already state that no one may pilot my plane unless they meet the open pilot requirements. I would guess that most underwriters are not pilots and it would be easy to misunderstand the role of a safety pilot. By name it sounds like a co-pilot or someone there to help pilot in some situations. In reality, it is not. They are there for traffic observation only.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 03-13-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:38 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
I think the person is confusing the safety pilot under vfr and ifr conditions. Under IFR, they are the PIC, but in VFR they're basically just and observer.
I think that you were thinkng of a non-instrument rated pilot. For a current and rated pilot, he can be PIC under ifr, of course.
My understanding of the faa’s vindictive interpretation of the basic med rules is that a basic med safety pilot must be the PIC - legally responsible for the safe and legal operation of the airplane. Pilots should think thru the ramifications of this, both with the faa and insurance companies.
Like others, I hope the insurance rep mis-spoke. The FAA allows pilots to act as a safety pilot even in circumstances where they are not qualified to act as PIC, e.g., no high performance endorsement is required even if the plane is over 200 HP.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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flytoboat flytoboat is offline
 
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Does this mean I can't allow anyone not on my insurance to touch a flight control??? I love taking non-pilot friends flying and letting them "fly" the airplane.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:22 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flytoboat View Post
Does this mean I can't allow anyone not on my insurance to touch a flight control??? I love taking non-pilot friends flying and letting them "fly" the airplane.
No, you are the PIC in that scenario, even when they are operating the controls.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:21 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by airguy View Post
No, you are the PIC in that scenario, even when they are operating the controls.
That is the FAA's interpretation. I think you'll find your insurance companies different.

Larry
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2019, 05:22 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by flytoboat View Post
Does this mean I can't allow anyone not on my insurance to touch a flight control??? I love taking non-pilot friends flying and letting them "fly" the airplane.
This is exactly what I was told by gallagher. Anyone touching the controls needs to meet the open pilot requirements of the policy. The PIC thing is a regulatory matter and the insurance companies set their own guidelines and don't necessarily follow the regs for doing so. The fact that you must follow regs to be covered doesn't mean they don't also have additional requirements of their own. The requirement for time in type or CFI sign off is one of those.

None of this means you can't do it, only that if they found out they would deny coverage on an incident in which it took place.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 03-13-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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