Napa 7220 Toxicity?

I'm trying to determine if a symptom is coincidence or a result of exposure and could use a little tribal knowledge.

I checked the data sheet of 7220 and nothing appears to indicate a requirement for a fresh air breathing apparatus. I have a 3M particulate/ organic vapor respirator and have been using it while priming with 7220. I'm priming in an enclosed area (PVC wrapped with plastic sheeting.) I'm only priming for short bursts while using the mask and then leaving the paint booth and heading for fresh air.

Since I've been putting the tail kit together, I've been experiencing very mild difficulty breathing (I had asthma as a child.) Haven't had an issue since I was in my late teens. I'm wondering if this is just a coincidence.

Will go see a doctor in the next few weeks but just wanted to check to see if I'm insane for priming with 7220 without a fresh air system. Based on what I've seen here and the data sheet, I don't think I'm doing anything stupid (at least not associated with priming) but thought I'd check with the team.

Any feedback?

7220

If you're using a good respirator, I doubt the 7220 is causing a respiratory issue but I'm not an authority.
I shoot 7220 and SWP60G2 and always with a respirator. No issues. The aluminum dust is also a possibility. Definitely see the doctor.

If you remain in the room with the curtain, you will be affected. That MSDS list is like many self etching primers and it really bothers me too. I also had asthma and am sensitive to acetone, mek, toluene etc. All of these are in that paint.

If you smell anything through the mask it is finished, get another.

Good Luck!

the big picture?

Eric, I'm certainly not an expert, but have been in the commercial paint/ink business long enough to have some feedback.
the #1 problem I see with respirators is that they are not 'bagged' between uses.
the organic cartridge, often a carbon based purifier, will happily go on trying to purify all the air in your shop, all year, even if you never use it.
New cartridges are sealed, and once installed on a mask, need to be resealed between uses. Your rarely see 'the pros' do this, because they are going to use it again in 1/2 an hour, and the buy them by the case!
i usually pop off the particle prefilter, as it can become 'wetted' with vapour, and let this gas off, or dry out, separate from the mask. Its cheap, change it often.

#2 is the fit. a simple test....cover the outlet and blow gently, and see if it easily overcomes the seal and air shoots out around the perimiter, often the nose or under chin.
Cover the inlets to the filters and suck....you shouldn't get anything at all, no whistling air.

ERushing said:

Any feedback?

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Prime outside in fresh air, then drag the parts back into the shop to dry.

Aluminum Dust

It seemed like after any heavy deburring or sanding tasks (like preparing for painting) I would have some respiratory distress. I now use a dust mask when doing this work.

Is it toxic? Of course it is. It's a good idea that you have a sealed paint booth, but if you can't ventilate it, its not really a paint booth. If it is near your shop where you are building, you are continually exposed if you can smell primer with your mask off. If your paint booth is located away from your shop and you can't ventilate it, I think you should use a fresh air system to protect your health. The aromatic solvents in most primers and paints are harmful, even if you filter most of it out.

Thanks Everyone!

Calling it a "paint booth" might have been a bit generous. It's really just a temporary frame made of PVC Pipe and plastic sheet. When it's time to prime, I assemble it, prime, air out the garage and disassemble it.

I learned a lot from your answers. I'm going to buy a few more filters for my mask because it's been left out in the open and I haven't changed it once.

I clean with acetone and sand & file without a mask. I'm going to be altering my behavior a bit Also going to see the doctor to get an inhaler to address the symptoms.

Sadly, I can't prime outside. Living in Oregon, we have 3-4 months a year where there is no more beautiful place on Earth. The downside is 8-9 months a year, it's grey, cold & raining. Priming and rain don't mix so well

Thanks for all the feedback!

ERushing said:

I'm going to buy a few more filters for my mask because it's been left out in the open and I haven't changed it once.

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Why not just buy a fresh air system like the Hobbyair and be done with it? If you're sensitive to it, why take a chance?

ERushing said:

Thanks Everyone!

I'm going to buy a few more filters for my mask because it's been left out in the open and I haven't changed it once.

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I suspect that is your problem right there. If you can smell the paint through the mask, it is finished. Change the filters.
When they are not connected to my mask I store my filter cartridges in sealed ziplock type bags separate from the particle filters. At the first hint of any odor through the mask I get out of the booth and put new filters on. If they are working properly and your mask fits right you will not be able to smell anything while painting.

Hope that helps.

I clean with acetone and sand & file without a mask. I'm going to be altering my behavior a bit

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Can I tell you that nothing will focus you more on safety than you doctor ringing you up at 6:30(pm) and asking you to come to the surgery within the next half hour and bring your wife with you, after a routine check up.
DONT take chances with safety, please.
I have survived 18 years after my experience with cancer, but you are waaaay better off not having to go through that stuff.
Take ALL the precautions advised even if they seem a pain at the time.
The alternative is not pleasant let me tell you.

Think about the cost of a fresh air system and appropriate clothing (disposable coveralls) and the cost of treatment and ongoing care.
I think you will agree, saftey equipment is real cheap in the long run.
Suit up please.

Venting

Can you rig a vent to pull fumes outside when painting? It will help. I built a temporary booth for bad weather days. A Rule 240 bilge blower and dryer vent blows fumes outside. It doesn't remove all, but helps a lot. The other issue you should address is the volatility of the cloud. You don't want a flash fire either.

Venting

Larry,

What did you use for the conduit for the bilge pump? I think I can rig something up but, optimally, it would be some sort of light collapsible fabric tunnel. I'm thinking of a smaller version of what the city crews use to vent when they're working underground.

Sadly, I chose 7220 over AKZO because I thought I was avoiding just these issues. With a HobbyAir & venting, I'm wishing I had just started there and used AKZO...

Live & Learn

Edit - 10 minutes of searching and I found an inexpensive solution on Amazon. Shoot... Why didn't I do this when I started!!! If anyone else is considering this, just search for "rule 240 marine bilge blower" on Amazon. Less than $50 gets you a bilge blower (fan for venting the fumes) and 20' of white vinyl flexible duct.

Bilge blower

The nice part with the Bilge blower is it's intrinsically safe. I mounted the bilge blower on a chunk of 1"x6" scrap. If you order one, you also need the power supply. Very cheap on E-bay. 12v, 6A. Basically it's a computer monitor power supply. The blower has 4" flange on either side so any dryer vent works fine. Use your imagination on plumbing it. A visit to the aviation dept at Home Depot will give plenty of ideas. I drilled a hole in a scrap 1"x6"x8' and place it under the garage door. Some builders fashion a filter using HVAC filter. I haven't added one yet. It won't exhaust a full session with my HVLP but it moves most of it out. I only use it when it's too nasty to prime outside. Make sure the exhaust isn't pointed at the wife's new car. There are photos on my blog "wings" page.

I have to say, hanging around VAF has really made me change my attitude about some things. Exposure to various toxic (or suspect) substances is one of them. I've been very careful when dealing with things like metal prep acids and Iridite solution, with good chemical-proof gauntlet gloves and a Tychem suit. I switched to lead-free solder about ten years ago, and I generally use nitrile gloves when using solvents. However, I have generally had what some might consider to be a casual attitude about things like paint fumes. Based on what I'm learning here, that's changed.

I have a couple of 3M respirators I bought for use while sanding and doing drywall work (and for our awesome Walt & Jesse Halloween costumes), and after reading this thread I've ordered some new filters for organic and acid vapors as well as particulates. I'm wearing gloves now while deburring, and have started wearing a dust filter mask while using Scotchbrite pads or the wheel and creating airborne aluminum dust.

It's not a big deal to use a little bit more protective equipment while working, and maybe it will keep me healthy a little longer (or at least slow the rate of decline).

exhaust systems

hey guys, good to see lots of attention and caution being exercised.

Don't forget that in order for even a 1 million cfm blower to EXHAUST even one cubic foot of air, that cubic foot has to get INTO your booth, shop, garage.
I constantly see people focusing on the OUT, with no way for air to get IN.
If you can open your shop door with the fan running, with one finger, then you have adequate makeup air. If it's 'sucked' shut, then the exhaust is not getting what it needs, and you have a negative pressure. The other bad news, it's sucking dirt and junk from every little crack around the perimeter of your shop.
Much better to make a big false door frame that is 10 sq. ft. of cheap furnace filters, and control the quality of the inlet air.

of course, in cold weather, nobody wants to let cold, fresh air into our paint area. Radiant heaters take care of some of that problem, rather than trying to reheat the fresh air.

happy painting!

DaleB said:

I have to say, hanging around VAF has really made me change my attitude about some things. Exposure to various toxic (or suspect) substances is one of them. I've been very careful when dealing with things like metal prep acids and Iridite solution, with good chemical-proof gauntlet gloves and a Tychem suit. I switched to lead-free solder about ten years ago, and I generally use nitrile gloves when using solvents. However, I have generally had what some might consider to be a casual attitude about things like paint fumes. Based on what I'm learning here, that's changed.

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A long time ago "in a land far away" I had a research grant to study the effects of drugs of abuse on brain function. Sniffing paint was much more harmful to the brain than the use of any other drug; speed, coke, heroin, etc. Since the brain is largely fat, imaging studies showed holes in their brain, where paint solvents had dissolved brain tissue. The damage was irreversible. Loss of intellect and other functions was profound in most of these people.

These folks were inhaling higher concentrations for longer periods than we are likely to encounter painting our planes, but you don't have to spend much time around an auto paint shop to get an idea of what can happen.

That said, I have to admit I still enjoy the smell of fresh paint, and I don't think it has effected mee at awll.

First, yes the timing of the onset of your symptoms and your exposure to the paint product may not be coincidence. Airborne organic solvent vapor are known to irritate pulmonary airways and can exacerbate asthma.

Sam was correct, the organic vapor cartridges have a finite lifespan and will adsorb airborne contaminants passively (i.e., while not being worn).

Also, in a full industrial respirator program, the fit between the mask and the user's face is evaluated quantitatively with instrumentation. Because it is the inhalation effort of the user that draws air through the cartridges of a standard half-face respirator, any gap in the fit of the mask to the user's face will allow contaminants to bypass the purifying element. Same with facial hair.

Powered air-purifying equipment solves this problem but is much more expensive (and much more effective) than standard half-face respirators.

Also, while breathing trouble is often the result of lung problems, other illness can cause such symptoms as well. Make sure your doctor doesn't get tunnel vision because of your exposure.

Note that most doctors do not know anything about the health effects of inhaled organic solvents. Clinical toxicologists or occupational medicine physicians are the best bet for docs who know something about health effects of solvents. If your problem is from your lungs, then a pulmonologist should know what to do.

Thank you!

Thank you for the info. My wife works for Providence here in Oregon so we have great benefits. I'll ask my GP to refer me to a specialist.

Really appreciate the guidance!

The filters work by absorbing and trapping the organic chemicals that pass through them. You might think that it works from the outside in, using up filter as they "fill" with pollutant. But in reality it is a exponential curve, with the most being absorbed on the outer surface and less as you look toward your nose's side of the mask. But if the concentration is high enough outside the mask, then the concentration at your nose is non-zero. Painting in a poorly ventilated booth of any kind creates that condition.

Second thing is that the pollutant in the filter does not stay put. It migrates to some degree to even out over time. So with time the high concentration on the outer layers moves in. So the next time you get that exponential curve of filtering, the inner side of the curve starts at a higher level because of the material that migrates that way in the time since the last job.

I'm not sure how often the filter should be changed to maintain zero chemicals at your nose, but I basically use it one weekend and then change it for the next time around. Not so much because of the first problem above (over-concentration), but because of the second feature (migration toward the user).