Home > VansAirForceForums

- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-25-2018, 09:50 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 8,338
Default Another alternative......

To meet FCC station identification requirements, FAA guidlines, and my own self preservation interest to help others see and identify me, I make first call on freq. as Yellow and Blue RV NXXXXX, bla bla bla.
All follow-on calls are Yellow and Blue RV Seven Charlie Lima, bla bla bla

And I also do the best I can when making position reports, that I am actually over the position or land mark I am reporting... and not just looking at it 2 or 3 miles ahead over the nose
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 09:50 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 4,190

Originally Posted by Rallylancer122 View Post
Guess the FAR's are pretty conclusive on using the N number.

With the RV's what's the consensus on type? I still use "Experimental 233M", but with 10,000 RV's out there have we earned our own type specific identifier. RV 233M? Vans 233M?

I used to fly a Meyers and they only built a hundred or so of those, but they got their own identifier. Heck, the other day I heard a Wing Derringer on frequency. The controller had to ask about that one.

I fly a lot of IFR flights "in the system" and always use "RV." Never had any pushback or concern. They all know what we are. However, while they always reply back to me as RV 64LR, it is interesting that over half the time they will describe me as experimental to other traffic. I am guessing regs require them to identify me that way.

RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
RV-10 in progress
Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 11:06 PM
crabandy crabandy is offline
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ks
Posts: 2,070

Just another another thought.....think further out. But it’s twice as hard because you actually have to listen further out too.

I like to build a mental picture of what the pattern is going to look like prior to entering the pattern, hence the call 10 miles out. Distance out, type aircraft experimental or not (I’ll do my own homework types/speeds, not everyone does) and a specific call sign helps me build the picture of how the pattern is going to play out well before I get there and adjust accordingly.

By the time I can identify type and color, I’ve already enacted plan A and B and C are ready if needed based on what I’ve heard. Radio is for preliminary info, at the pattern eyes out the window to see if I need to enact plan B/C and adapt. How many no-radio planes are already in the pattern, how many pilots have said east when they meant west or right downwind when they meant left downwind?

Remember everyone has a different knowledge/skill level, let the higher of either concede to the other and make it congenial and safe. I’ve heard many over speaking their “authority” over CTAF, just as many not listening to what is happening. Too much emphasis is put on talking on the radio versus listening to the radio.

Not to sound like a marriage counselor but Way too many people focused on talking and flying without enough listening to what is really going on.
RV 7 400 hours and counting
19 donation done

Last edited by crabandy : 09-25-2018 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 12:31 AM
G-force's Avatar
G-force G-force is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Castaic, CA
Posts: 536

I fly out of a small no towered airport with a tight, short (600') pattern, and non standard entry/exit procedures due to terrain and noise abatment procedures, and a flight school on the field. Having 5 'White cessna highwings" in the pattern/approaching/departing doesn't give one much info. I would much rather have the N number to mentally keep their locations in my head.
Mike Sumner
Castaic, Ca
2018 dues paid
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 04:39 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,088

Originally Posted by Kuhtenia View Post
As a new'ish private pilot and even newer RV-6A person, I find the tail numbers to be increasingly useful as ADS-B becomes more the norm. After hearing the call I glance at the area traffic to confirm I know where that person is, and the tail number makes an easy confirmation (if so equipped).
Agree. Also, i find it mentally taxing to look for a description in busy airspace as opposed to knowing a type and location. Confirmation on moving map with N-number helps solidify the mental picture - I know where to look. If someone calls a position that isn't confirmed on the moving map/ADSB that gets my attention. Can anyone easily distinguish blue/white from gray/white at 2 nm on a hazy day? Knowing type is more helpful: looking for “Skyhawk 64 whiskey” is easier than “white and blue high wing”.
Turner Billingsley

Last edited by mturnerb : 09-26-2018 at 06:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 05:45 AM
phapp phapp is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Walpole, NH
Posts: 54

A few thoughts for your consideration.

1) The point is to provide the most valuable information in the fewest words.

2) When working with ATC with no similar N Numbers, even they don't use the whole number. I believe the AIM says the last 3 after the initial contact.

3) A long string of numbers tells me nothing. For me type is most important. When planning the pattern, I'd need to know if it's a Beech 19 size pattern, a Citation size pattern, or a Cub size pattern. It also gives me an idea of their speed.

4) A bigger problem to address are the people who "chat" to make lunch dates, or give us a monologue about their flight, or fill us in on the latest family news. Frequencies can be very busy.

5) When I'm up with the other Champ at my field, I'm the yellow one, and the other one is the blue Champ. OK, if you insist it will promote safety, I'lm willing to give you yellow Champ 881, and blue Champ 873. Like someone said, the N Numbers do not help, cannot be seen, when you're figuring out who is where.
2019 - 2020 Dues Paid
N423PH Schweizer 1-23 (Sold)
N83881 Champ 7AC
N446PH RV8 (reserved)
PA-25 Pawnee Glider Tow Pilot (volunteer)
CallAir A-9 Glider Tow Pilot (volunteer)
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:32 AM
pa38112 pa38112 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Clarksboro, NJ
Posts: 699

The reason the FAA wants you to use your N-number at a non-towered field is because they can later identify you from the tapes (yes, all frequencies are recorded).
The FCC only requires you to identify on the initial transmission and then every X number of minutes (I cant remember, but I think it is every 15 min and at the top of every hour? - NO ONE follows it). In that case you could identify yourself on take-off and talk to a tower in route and then land without identifying in the pattern.
This is a classic example of two government agencies not coordinating with each other. At the end of the day, it is the FCC who has sole authority to regulate radio communications, just as it is the FAA has sole authority to regulate airspace.

As far as the OP - the guy was a jack-*** who himself did not follow guidelines or regulation. He is the same guy who pulls in front of you and won't leave the fast lane because he thinks it is his job to regulate your driving.
2004 RV6A Flying
2002 RV6A Flying
1978 PA38-112
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:49 AM
Turbo69bird Turbo69bird is offline
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 231

Originally Posted by alpinelakespilot2000 View Post
Question for FAA (or anyone):
How is it safer to use a random bunch of N#s that no one in an untowered pattern can remember as opposed to type and maybe even color? I’d take the latter any day!!!
I would guess that due to the ADSB mandate they are expecting people to see the n number on their screen and be able to locate that specific airplane better. Kind of relying on electronics more than visual cues which goes against everything I was taught as a pilot but that’s probably the idea.

As I was taught you ( DONT HAVE TO ) report anything at uncontrolled fields but that you should. I use “experimental” 10miles out to the south inbound for and runway. that’s it I don’t thpically use color.
In our Uncontrolled airspace half the old timers don’t even make any calls. They just buzz straight in and cut you off. ��.

I use experimental now instead of RV because that’s what ATC calls me when I’m using flight following to other traffic. RV is in my tail number so it’s redundant however at. Usually just says experimental north bound
3 thousand 500 . No tail number no colors when pointing me out to other traffic so figured I’d follow suit.

For now, I do think using the colors of the airplane is a good idea but now that ADSB and the world tracking system are being introduced the N number makes sense.
Otherwise my n number is 3inch tall, don’t think that’s helping anyone visually and if it is your too **** close. ����
Proud owner of 925RV
Special Thanks to Fred Stucklen

While I'm not a builder if I happen to give advice , I will not be responsible for damage to equipment, your ego, parts, world wide power outages, spontaneously generated black holes, planetary disruptions, or personal injury that may result from the use of this advice.

Last edited by Turbo69bird : 09-26-2018 at 07:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:52 AM
Raymo's Avatar
Raymo Raymo is offline
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 2,020

I can see an N number on my Dynon screen if the aircraft has ADS-B out.

This is a bit like the folks that refuse to use the correct air-to-air frequency and continue using 123.45 because that's what they've done for years and gotten away with it.
RV-7A - Slider - N495KL - First flt 27 Jan 17
O-360-A4M w/ AFP FM-150 FI, Dual PMags, Vetterman Trombone Exh, SkyTech starter, BandC Alt (PP failed after 226 hrs)
Catto 3 blade NLE, FlightLines Interior, James cowl, plenum & intake, Anti-Splat -14 seat mod and nose gear support
All lines by TSFlightLines

"The object of the game, gentlemen, is not to cheat death: the object is not to let him play."
Patrick Poteen, Sgt. U.S. Army
Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 07:09 AM
jnorris's Avatar
jnorris jnorris is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 175

Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Actually, "experimental" only has to be used when talking to a control tower.
And to put a finer point on this, the "experimental" is only required on the initial call to a control tower. You don't have to say it on every transmission. Just the first one. (This requirement is found in the aircraft's operating limitations rather than in the regulations themselves.)

Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
This is a bit like the folks that refuse to use the correct air-to-air frequency and continue using 123.45 because that's what they've done for years and gotten away with it.
Don't even get me started on this one!!!!

Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 AM.

The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.