straight from the horses mouth?

I have been 3 years + reading this forum and am always amazed by the number of people who ask us questions that Vans can and in a lot of cases should answer. Are people afraid to ask Vans? Some people ask others about some serious changes they want to make or mistakes they made. Who better to ask than Vans? Who has 25 years + working with, (guess what!) Vans' airplanes! They probably have seen everything possible pertaining to the RV's.
Like the guy who made an error mounting the tail assembly, he asked the forum if it would be alright. Someone was smart enough to suggest he ask vans. Granted a few people here are educated enough to answer most of the questions. Problem is who are these people? There are some people on this forum who haven't a clue yet as to what's going on and they are offering advice. One wrote about using rtv silicone all over his airplane BEFORE painting! Hopefully most people with problems who ask the forum for answers also ask Vans.
I asked here once or twice myself to see what answers would be offered and I also sent an e-mail or called Vans for their answer. Maybe we just like to talk on line. Just be careful who you ask, it?s your life.

You need to know who to trust!

Part of the reason is that there ARE a few people, such as experienced technical counselors, inspectors, etc. who can answer many of these questions. If everyone called Van's for every question, they could get little done at the factory.
You are right in that there are many people answering questions that shouldn't be. If you read between the lines and see, "I've never finished building an airplane, but this is the way it must be done." Be wary.
The secret is in knowing who to trust.

If everybody asked Vans

Nobody would be able to use there phone line to ask questions. I am not sure how many times I have referenced this sight where people have posted problems and advice on things, and it has saved myself a ton of head scratching and calls to Vans. When I started out, I wasn't sure what was right, wrong, or much else for that matter, this sight, was a tremendous help, all because people post there experiences. Granted, if you have a pretty big problem, a call to Vans is probably warrented, but even so, putting it on here is a great way for people to learn from other peoples mistakes. As for listening to peoples advice, ya, you have to be careful. But if somebody posted on here that they had a horrible experience using RTV on his plane, and I thought about doing the same thing, I might think twice about it before I slap it on. My opinion.

Randy

Not only is this site great for answering questions it is a great historical reference. Use the search feature and you can get answers to questions that have been asked before. This saves repeat phone calls to Vans about the same problem, and repeat threads.

We all come from different backgrounds, different building & repair experiences, different educational levels. Certainly, we are going to offer different ways to fix a problem based on those experiences. Many times there is more than one fix that will work. Ultimately, it is up to the person asking weather the info is valid for that particular application.

Advice here is worth just what you pay for it, but IMHO it is pretty accuate.

I like to use the rule of thumb...dont take the advice of just ONE person on here, and even then, use your own judgement because it is your 'arse' in the seat. If after all that, you're still uncomfortable, by all means call Vans. And safety trumps all...definitely call Vans if safety is an issue. This site is a great resource, you just have to filter the information.

RV7Ron said:

I like to use the rule of thumb...dont take the advice of just ONE person on here, and even then, use your own judgement because it is your 'arse' in the seat. If after all that, you're still uncomfortable, by all means call Vans. And safety trumps all...definitely call Vans if safety is an issue. This site is a great resource, you just have to filter the information.

Click to expand...

I agree. People may already have asked Vans, but want a second opinion. A problem may have lots of different solutions, and reading what other people have done is always useful, no matter if that particular solution was successful or not.

There are some questions builders already know the factory answer (e.g. it's not Swiss watch... or we are not endorsing 750 hp radial in RV8..) . On this very forum there are many with extensive background in aeronautical and structural engineering who offer excellent advice. Let people ask once and twice and couple three more times.
As Mel said the secret is in knowing who to trust.

When In Doubt, Throw It Out

Forums such as these can be a great source of information, but you need to keep a few things in mind:
1. All of the advice given is free. That means that some of it has no value.
2. If you see a poster's name come up often, that doesn't necessarily mean they're knowledgeable, it might just mean they like to post.
3. There is no risk in responding to a post (at least it feels like there's no risk), so a respondent suffers no consequence for a "bad" answer.
4. When someone starts talking about stress, strain, tension, torsion, or shear, be very suspicious. Unless they're willing to put P.E behind their name, it's tough to tell if they're really engineers.
5. If you have a structural issue, Vans if probably the best source.
6. If you still have doubts after reading replies to a posted question, call Vans.
7. If a post begins with "I think.." , you need to mentally change that lead-in to "I don't really know, but.."

In a forum, everyone's entitled to an opinion. Some are good and some can be not so good. Whether you use them or not is up to you.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP

Have you built an aircraft before the days of forums? I have and I'm a lot more informed with this build than I was on the first.

I did as well, a BD-4 from plans only without benefit of an online, nearly instant forum. I can tell you with 100% certainty having this forum is worth YEARS in the effort required to solve the unsolvable problems you'll encounter along the way. If for no other reason reading all the possible solutions has often helped me come up with my own later on. It isn't too hard separating the chaff from the good stuff either....

hopefully this isn't chaff????

Ron B. said:

Have you built an aircraft before the days of forums? I have and I'm a lot more informed with this build than I was on the first.

Click to expand...

Man, if it wasn't for prepunched holes and this forum, I would have never attempted to build an airplane!

in one end of the horse.......

heh - heh, as Mel says some of us haven't driven many rivets, ( I'm not a builder) so hopefully we can tell if the guy is an AME or CFI, or even without initials, has a lot of experience operating certified aircraft, then one can take their advice seriously, but with the great caveat."you get what you pay for".

( painting signs for 25 years, and still not qualified to tell you the difference between fuscia and magenta!

I sent an E-mail to Vans last week and still don't have a response. I could have asked the question here and had 10 answers in a few hours or less. And you ask why I didn't? Cause with Vans only one or two people will know how stupid I am.

To my mind, one advantage of these forums is the rapid feedback, particularly for relatively simple questions that I had early on. Hard to get anyone at Vans to answer the phone on Saturday night, but someone here is usually around. That doesn't mean that I take all advice from the forum but at least it provides food for thought.

And for the record, this is only my opinion ....

greg

efficient search technique

One of the difficulties I have is using the search feature. Sometimes even looking for a thread I have read before, I can't find it. I tend to bookmark pages I think I might need, but I still seem to spend lots of time looking for answers. Great entertainment but it slows me down!
Would be so good to have some kind of reference tool based on topic.
Not complaining, I love this site.

Many posts are not highly technical or in needs of Vans advice. Most people building know that when the paw paw gets real deep, "run to Vans" for the final say.
Besides being a great help and guidance, this site makes you feel "not alone" You are part of a gang, the "VAF gang"
Many aircraft are flying thanks to the advice and help of the VAF forums.
Thanks Doug.

Vans can't answer many of the questions any better.

I'd say half of my questions were regarding non-construction related questions. e.g. What's this thing....,Engine related q's..,
Vans once told me not to purchase an IO360. "Why put that HP in a -6A he said. You don't need it." So, I decided Vans' answers can be as subjective as the ones on this forum. Anyone who regularly uses this website quickly learns much about the personalities of the posters. Like someone else said, some posters enjoy greeting you, some are complainers, some are true experimental testers and most are really offering experience to the rest of the crowd. That said, I am still waiting for an answer from Vans about if they can send me a wood wing shape template with my finish kit that I didn't get with the kit I bought, for aligning flaps, ailerons correctly. This site search showed other methods to do it.

get someone local

Mel said:

You are right in that there are many people answering questions that shouldn't be. If you read between the lines and see, "I've never finished building an airplane, but this is the way it must be done." Be wary.
The secret is in knowing who to trust.

Click to expand...

This site is great but, as posters before me mentioned, it is free and you get what you pay for. Van's builds kits and does not build that many aircraft so may not have run into as many issues as you find here on line. I also think Van depends on the great user community that RVs have to keep their cost down and not have a large staff to answer the phone.

My advise is get someone local that you really trust. Use a EAA tech counselor, the DAR that will do your FAA inspection, or someone that has built before or has an A&P. The key is get someone you trust. Having someone local that can come and look and chat interactively is the best to solving serious (or not so serious) issues. The issue I find with most postings is that people are answering questions without all the facts. One or two pictures does can not always explain the problem. No good solutions can come without knowing the problem. Local support is a must for those that have little experience and need some good advice. This forum is a must for support, minor issues, history, and suggestions.