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  #31  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:07 PM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
Someone mentioned that a side-by-side rocket would defeat the purpose of the Rocket. I thought the purpose was to climb and cruise like you're the Bandit and Smokey is on your tail. All-out speed, with a little increased roll-rate thrown in for kicks. Oh, and the growl of the 540 vs. a 4-banger.

I do understand all that. But given the comparison between the -4 and -6, and between the -8 and -7, I suspect a side-by-side Rocket wouldn't be much slower at all. If at all. And having your passenger beside you would help with any CG issues. Wouldn't it?
Mark says the side by side shape is actually a better aerodynamic shape, though it still seems to be "frontal area challenged"...still trying to figure that one out (he's 'splained it, but I'm slow), and still trying to find more speed (to hunt Rockets with! ) But it is nice sitting next to the kiddos and the bride at times, and still going fast. Formation and dogfighting makes me long for a tandem...sometimes, and that is perhaps what the person that wrote the comment had in mind...and there's merit to it...fighter fantasies are perhaps more true to life in a tandem. However, here's a couple interesting tid-bits, just for fun:

Mark and I met in 4 races this year, and split them between Pesky and Rocket Six. Something over 750 miles of racing, and the difference in total elapsed time between us...9.11 seconds (to Mark's favor). Difference in the average time for the four races combined: Mark 243.93 mph, me 243.56 mph.

OK, some caveats. Mark babied his motor a little on a couple races, and had a gear leg fairing malfunction in one, so I think he is really a few mph faster, and will have room to gain speed. I think I can gain some too, with some glass work and cooling drag mods...we'll see.

Wayne Hadath and Greg Nelson are one level up, being consistent 250+ mph speedsters...they are in our gunsights (Mark's and mine!). Mark says Doug's Red Rocket (ole' 84) is in that class as well (Doug, can you come out and play? ). Tom Martin is in a class by himself, consistenly in the 260+ mph range. Every time I ask him about something on his plane with the query "is that stock", his reply is, "Bob, nothing on this airplane is stock"! I'm a believer!

Overall, the S6 has done well against a few F1's, and has not lost to an HRII yet (are you reading SmokyRay? ) I'd also love to see what Kahuna's S8 would do...I'll bet its fast!

So a side by side Rocket can play, but I don't know which (SbS or tandem) would hit the speed wall first, and certainly the wing is a big factor.

Back to the OPs thought line, still thinking the engineering effort (including Vne/flutter protection) and the competetive issues make a V-Rocket improbable from a biz standpoint. Mark is a great guy to carry that torch! And who knows what John Harmon will come up with down the road. Fun stuff!

So where the heck are those other 85 F1 kits? and how many have EVO wings?

Cheers,
Bob
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2011, 11:13 PM
rv72004 rv72004 is offline
 
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Agreed the 8 does everything well, BUT I fly only for fun, and a Rocket would just add to the overall experience. I have spoken to many a military or professional pilots [which have flown both] who all say the Rocket is just nicer in all respects. I have yet to meet someone who has been negative towards the Rocket.
So for me its kinda the last step. Problem is Mark is just taking too long to get the ball rolling again !!!

But one thing someone mentioned makes sense, " if Vans builds a Rocket it would take away from 8 sales "
And just this statement alone has convinced me Vans will never build a Rocket and has answered my initial question. So I patiently await Mr Fredricks................
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2011, 08:51 AM
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F1Boss F1Boss is offline
 
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Location: Taylor Texas
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Default Could be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee View Post
Mark, are you the person to whom an unnamed RV4 pilot/builder of Rocket with EVO wings talks about? I suspect that you are and I am trying to get him down to a SARL race in that area this year.

Guess I should state he is at Meadow Lake airport in Colorado.
Are you referring to Lee? I hear that particular plane is blazing fast - might give Ol' Tom a run for his money. The Pagosa Springs race is very good Evo territory - he should go to that one for a good start on his SARL experience.

Don't look for me to show up there until I get some kind of forced induction installed.

Carry on!
Mark
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  #34  
Old 01-13-2011, 09:33 AM
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F1Boss F1Boss is offline
 
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Default it only take money!

Quote:
Originally Posted by B25Flyer View Post
I have always known what my next airplane would be, but since I bought the EVO Rocket, I have no idea what my next airplane would be... It really is at the limits of what can be done in a S/E airplane with a reasonable stall speed....

The only way I can see making it better is to but a turbo-normalizer on a -550 to increase the high altitude cruise speed and move the CG forward.....

Until that happens, it looks like I am stuck with Ole '84. There is really no where to go from here for my mission.....
Now that there is the best elucidation of the reason for the development of the Evo. All that, and Tom gets to take his wife along FINALLY.

Bring 'er over & drop 'er off - I can arrange for the requested changes.

On second thought, let's use 158 for this project....it's 3/4 there already. I can arrange for the Big Red paint....

Since roll rate was discussed earlier in this thread, our Official Test Pilot found 158 has enough roll rate to put the Dynon to sleep. Dynon sez that is 150 deg/sec (http://wiki.dynonavionics.com/EFIS-D100_FAQ), so this particular ship is better than what we thought the Evo was capable of, thanks AGAIN to Tom Martins' tweaking skills.

Carry on!
Mark
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  #35  
Old 01-13-2011, 09:13 PM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Default Don't forget the Harmon Rocket!

But one thing someone mentioned makes sense, " if Vans builds a Rocket it would take away from 8 sales "
And just this statement alone has convinced me Vans will never build a Rocket and has answered my initial question. So I patiently await Mr Fredricks................

To the gentleman that wrote the above quote, don't forget that you can still build a new Harmon Rocket. The HR II offers loads of safe and proven performance. Check out his web site.

Factory Glassair test pilot Jack Kane told me, "If you want to fix airplanes, build a retractable. If you want to fly, build a fixed gear." I know why Tom and Mark like the taper wing and if Mark gets his new airfoil just right it will go faster. Not all of us want higher or faster. For me the sport wing is enough, and it's way beyond excellent. But it will fun to watch just how fast Tom can go if Mark ever ships him a new set of wings.
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2011, 09:45 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Default Why not an R-10?

What would it take to make a high speed Rocket 10?

Maybe put a set of Evo wings on a -10 fuselage and stuff a 400 HP IO-720 up front. Thicker skins might be required and why not convert it to a taildragger while you are at it.

Of course acro would be out but it might pick up a few knots over a Rocket and haul four people.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2011, 01:27 AM
rv72004 rv72004 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1R View Post
But one thing someone mentioned makes sense, " if Vans builds a Rocket it would take away from 8 sales "
And just this statement alone has convinced me Vans will never build a Rocket and has answered my initial question. So I patiently await Mr Fredricks................

To the gentleman that wrote the above quote, don't forget that you can still build a new Harmon Rocket. The HR II offers loads of safe and proven performance. Check out his web site.

Factory Glassair test pilot Jack Kane told me, "If you want to fix airplanes, build a retractable. If you want to fly, build a fixed gear." I know why Tom and Mark like the taper wing and if Mark gets his new airfoil just right it will go faster. Not all of us want higher or faster. For me the sport wing is enough, and it's way beyond excellent. But it will fun to watch just how fast Tom can go if Mark ever ships him a new set of wings.
Agreed. But the Harmon is not a quickbuild. I enjoy building , but there are limits. Also the F1 is a more complete package than the Harmon.

With the new Carbon & Glass wing and engineering that Mark is putting into it, it could well be the ultimate Rocket. Low landing speed , good cruise speed and total excitement.
We can only hope it will happen. As some of you know,Mark needs 20 people to get the first production run going. I think he may have that number.
If anyone really wants a ultimate Rocket, this a opportunity not to be missed.
I missed out on the EVO when mark was selling them and hopefully wont make the same mistake again.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2011, 04:44 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
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Default Man! if only ...

If I were only 50 years younger I would be all over it. Mark is the best and only hope I suspect for such a high quality offering to come to pass. The absolute beauty of his designs are without equal. SARL performance by the "Team Rocket - Canada" alone validates the everyday usability and speed of his designs. Tom Martin and Wayne Hadath repeatedly fly hundreds of miles from their homes in Ontario to a race, fly high speeds in the race, then turn around and fly home again with no special preparation or maintenance.

Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 274.58
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 270.06
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/28/08 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 266.54
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 262.21
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 261.54
Rocket 100 2009 11/22/09 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 256.04
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 253.61
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 250.32
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 247.29
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 244.21
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 243.31
Top of the Chesapeake 7/11/10 Sport FX EVO Rocket Martin, Tom 224.61

Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 258.36
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 253.74
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/28/08 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 251.55
Rocket 100 2009 11/22/09 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 247.41
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 246.07
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 245.32
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 243.38
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 243.09
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 242.74
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 242.3
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 241.06
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 238.65
AirVenture Cup 2009 7/27/09 Sport FX F1 Rocket Hadath, Wayne 234.74

Bob Axsom
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:11 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Bob, are those Rocket speeds in knots?
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  #40  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:48 AM
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n504tw n504tw is offline
 
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Quote:
Bob, are those Rocket speeds in knots?
That would be cool! They look like MPH to me though.
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